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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: John S on March 01, 2010, 08:25:27 PM

Title: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: John S on March 01, 2010, 08:25:27 PM

If Mad Max was still in charge he would no doubt just accept the money, I wonder which way the new boy Todt will call it?

The struggling US F1 team is offering Formula 1 governing body the FIA a 7-digit compensation figure in return for missing the entire season this year, American broadcaster SpeedTV reports.

With Charlotte-based US F1 still determined to become America's first Grand Prix team, the squad has come under yet more pressure in recent weeks as hopeful Serbian outfit Stefan GP hopes to push for the withdrawal of the former in order to make room on the grid for itself.

However, SpeedTV now reports that US F1 co-founder Ken Anderson and Chad Hurley - head of YouTube, a major partner of the team - have now offered to hand over 'a substantial 7-figure surety bond as proof of their intentions to race next year'.

It has also been reported that Hurley remains committed to US F1 despite reports elsewhere in the media which suggest he is now considering a switch to Campos.

gpupdate.net, today

Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: cosworth151 on March 01, 2010, 08:30:45 PM
From what I've read, USF1 would get the money back if they make the grid next season.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Jericoke on March 01, 2010, 08:35:53 PM
I like when Toyota decided to enter F1, and they realised they weren't ready and pulled out.  That was a very responsible move:  F1 doesn't need cars that are rushed, possibly unsafe and quite likely embarassingly off pace.

However, there was no team waiting in the wings to replace Toyota.

If USF1 isn't ready to race:  don't.  If another team takes their place, then that's too bad.

I have a feeling that no matter what FIA decides, they will need FOTA and Bernie to agree (Concorde is involved, after all.) 
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Scott on March 01, 2010, 08:37:24 PM
It all sounds a bit strange...why on earth would the FIA save their grid spot for next year, when they can sell it to more than a few others?  7 digits doesn't cut very far in F1 - try 8.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Jericoke on March 01, 2010, 08:48:17 PM
It all sounds a bit strange...why on earth would the FIA save their grid spot for next year, when they can sell it to more than a few others?  7 digits doesn't cut very far in F1 - try 8.

Well... they might not have anything on FIA, but just how fast YouTube pulls down FOM video might be able to negotiate from 8 down to 7 figures...
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: cosworth151 on March 01, 2010, 08:50:03 PM
I think the Serbian Vultures, as Ferrari called them, have stepped on too many toes at the FIA and elsewhere to expect any favors.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: John S on March 01, 2010, 09:00:24 PM
I think the Serbian Vultures, as Ferrari called them, have stepped on too many toes at the FIA and elsewhere to expect any favors.

You may well be right Cos, it should only takes one vote against Stefan GP from the existing teams and they can't be allowed in. However I think that ringmaster Bernie just may have other ideas and convince the FIA to use Force Majeure rules if he really wants Stefan GP on the grid in Bahrain.

Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Dare on March 01, 2010, 10:42:21 PM
USF1 signed on to race in 2010 and if they
can't tough,give the spot to Stefan
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: FW14B on March 02, 2010, 08:31:55 AM
I agree, they signed up for this year and put out many teams who were arguably in a better position at the time to be involved in F1, so if they cannot get onto the grid in 2010, they should not be allowed in next year either. 

I notice there have been noises that the team had signed James Rossiter to parter Lopez, I wonder why these rumours are coming out now? 
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: cosworth151 on March 02, 2010, 12:04:41 PM
Stefan bought a year old junker off Toyota. Where will they get a car next year?

http://en.espnf1.com/teamus/motorsport/story/9664.html (http://en.espnf1.com/teamus/motorsport/story/9664.html)
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Jericoke on March 02, 2010, 01:40:37 PM
I agree, they signed up for this year and put out many teams who were arguably in a better position at the time to be involved in F1, so if they cannot get onto the grid in 2010, they should not be allowed in next year either. 

I notice there have been noises that the team had signed James Rossiter to parter Lopez, I wonder why these rumours are coming out now? 

I say open the sport up.  The first thirteen teams with a legal car built and tested are your grid members.  If you're team 14, thanks for your deposit, better luck next year.

It actually provides some good opportunities:  if your off season programme suffers, take a season off, get the car right (unlimited testing!), and be first in line next year.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: cosworth151 on March 02, 2010, 01:48:02 PM
So, we end up with some flash-in-the-pan teams, who buy some old beater and show up. They can do start and park like NASCAR. Meanwhile, investors, manufacturers and sponsors run away because they'll have no assured return on their investment.

We've run with 10 teams for years now. There was a major hassle about whether or not there should be a 13th team. So, why is it now the end of the world if we go one season with 12?
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Jericoke on March 02, 2010, 02:19:29 PM
So, we end up with some flash-in-the-pan teams, who buy some old beater and show up. They can do start and park like NASCAR. Meanwhile, investors, manufacturers and sponsors run away because they'll have no assured return on their investment.

We've run with 10 teams for years now. There was a major hassle about whether or not there should be a 13th team. So, why is it now the end of the world if we go one season with 12?

So a one day quali:  the fastest 13 cars.  If a big team can't show up with a reliable car, they don't deserve to be there.  Certainly 'historic' teams would get an exemption, or else Ferrari would never go for it.

Imagine if Renault or Honda had been allowed to take a year off to get their teams back in order?  Would they still be in the sport?  There will be a stable group of teams, and there will always be 'vultures' circling. 

It's not really much different from 'relegation' which is very common in European sports.  (And would be welcome to kick some of the pro teams into action in North America)
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: cosworth151 on March 02, 2010, 02:44:56 PM
Renault still is in. Honda and Toyota were dead meat no matter what. The reason for the first Concorde Agreement was to do away with what you advocate. It was killing F1.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Jericoke on March 02, 2010, 03:02:21 PM
Renault still is in. Honda and Toyota were dead meat no matter what. The reason for the first Concorde Agreement was to do away with what you advocate. It was killing F1.

'Renault' is in F1, but Renault S.A. is not.  Honda and Toyota don't act like they were given a chance to take time off to get things in order either... 100% committment or nothing.  (I'm not saying that anything could keep them in... and now I wonder if Toyota knew about the recall problems they're having now, and that was a reason to pull out of F1... but I digress)

I only started really following F1 when the grid was more or less stable.  I'm not sure when Concorde came into place, but I know that it was designed to stop people from showing up for a weekend to try and squeeze into the grid.  I'm not advocating a return to weekend free for alls.

I'm just suggesting that there are always teams not so serious about F1 racing.  (I'm not saying that the owners/engineers/dirvers aren't passionate dedicated professionals, just that they know they aren't going to win, and just hope to get some TV time.)  If someone believes they can do better, why not give them one shot each year? 

Campos/Hispania and USF1, if they are allowed to race this year, won't even have conducted a test, and yet fit the rules of Concorde, but certainly not the spirit.  I don't know if Stefan is really better than any of the other entries, but if they claim to be, how does keeping a better team out of F1 add to the sport's prestige?  If they're not better, let them have a test, and it's no big deal to tell them to put their half baked operation to bed.

At the end of the day I'm very disappointed in USF1, and to a lesser degree Campos.  I don't want any substandard teams on the grid.  It's embarassing to have 20 cars out there when 26 were 'promised', but 6 cars that are falling apart, begging for sponsors, and driven by spoiled kids with a rich uncle isn't what I'm tuning in for either.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: judy on March 02, 2010, 03:23:52 PM
I fully agree with Jeri that substandard teams should not be allowed on the grid. FIA have already made big mistake of approving teams without making a thorough investigation on the financial aspects. They have to put a stop to all these mess and not replace one substandard team with another substandard team. I think only teams who are fully committed to strive for competitive racing through development, and with strong financial backing should be allowed on the grid, not teams who are taking part just to make up the numbers or just to get some TV time.  :nono:
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Dare on March 02, 2010, 03:31:12 PM
One report has USF1 down to 2 employees,hardly
a full fledged race team.Some ask what Stefan
would do next year after buying the dog[Toyota]
which I don't think was that bad of a car.what did
Brawn do this year after buying the dog Honda?Improved
their driver lineup is all.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: cosworth151 on March 02, 2010, 03:38:32 PM
I've read all kinds of reports. Most say USF1 is still fully staffed. I refer you to the link in an earlier post of mine on this subject.

There is no one at Stefan who could do Ross Brawn magic, so I doubt that the cars will be even as good as last year. What happens then Stefan blows up an engine? I'm sure Toyota isn't building parts for them anymore.

Does that mean you would have dumped teams like Minardi or Super Aguri? Force India, Red Bull, STR and even Williams have had seasons when they under performed. Should they have been thrown under the bus?

F1 needs stability in its structure. It needs teams that make the long term commitment. It doesn't need a team of year-old backmarkers.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Dare on March 02, 2010, 03:50:56 PM
Teams like Minardi SA,Force India,Red Bull,STR,
and Williams to name a few actually showed up
on the grid with a car.I admit these teams had
years with a bad car just like Toyota,so why single
out Toyota as the poster boy for bad cars.

Im all for a US F1 team!!!Maybe Penske will show them how
to do it one day.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: cosworth151 on March 02, 2010, 04:01:23 PM
Toyota had one of, if not the biggest budget on the grid for 10 years and never won a single race.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Dare on March 02, 2010, 04:07:28 PM
I think they had too many shoguns and not
enough samurais ;)
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Scott on March 02, 2010, 04:30:40 PM
Toyota had one of, if not the biggest budget on the grid for 10 years and never won a single race.

Their reputation for quality seems to be showing under their skirt now - maybe it's no surprise they didn't win a thing with their budget.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Dare on March 02, 2010, 04:34:59 PM
Toyota had one of, if not the biggest budget on the grid for 10 years and never won a single race.

Their reputation for quality seems to be showing under their skirt now - maybe it's no surprise they didn't win a thing with their budget.

All car manufactors have had their share of
quality control problems at one time or another.
That's how the Japanese became a world force
in the car market.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Jericoke on March 02, 2010, 04:47:46 PM

There is no one at Stefan who could do Ross Brawn magic, so I doubt that the cars will be even as good as last year. What happens then Stefan blows up an engine? I'm sure Toyota isn't building parts for them anymore.


Probably not.  One test will be enough to demonstrate that.


Does that mean you would have dumped teams like Minardi or Super Aguri? Force India, Red Bull, STR and even Williams have had seasons when they under performed. Should they have been thrown under the bus?


I was thinking specifically about Minardi and to a lesser degree Arrows... Paul Stoddard was quite proud of the fact that he had the worst F1 team.  Midland, Spyker... they certainly never gave the sport a genuine effort (and rightly sold out once they realised they were in over their head). 

I'll admit, my plan might have scuppered efforts from FIF1 and RBR/STR... both organisations have been fantastic at building a programme year over year.  There's no reason why USF1 and Campos can't do that.  There's no reason why they can't take a year off, like Toyota did, and get things right.  Just... if someone else is ready to step in, why not give them a chance?


F1 needs stability in its structure. It needs teams that make the long term commitment. It doesn't need a team of year-old backmarkers.

It does.  However, in the time since this 'stable' arrangement was made we lost Toyota, BMW and Renault SA.  (The Renault loss was different, but people would point it out if I missed it.)  We came close to losing Manor, USF1 and Campos both hang by a thread, and Sauber comes across as a duty to the people on payroll, rather than an organisation out to win (Williams too, I'm sad to say.)  Even FIF1 isn't guaranteed to show up (or has this corporate house thing been resolved?)

Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Scott on March 02, 2010, 04:51:54 PM
Just teasing, but it is a bit crazy that they've spent upwards of 2.5billion and nothing to show for it.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Dare on March 02, 2010, 05:20:19 PM
Just teasing, but it is a bit crazy that they've spent upwards of 2.5billion and nothing to show for it.

Just think of the recalls they'd of had
if they hadn't spent 2.5 billion testing
in F1.Might have saved them thousands  :o
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: cosworth151 on March 02, 2010, 05:24:51 PM
FIF1 is safe. They've filed the required paperwork.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=359080&FS=F1 (http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=359080&FS=F1)

Stoddy was not proud of being the worst team on the grid. He was very proud of being able to do as well as he did with the small budget he had. Minardi's "mouse that roared" spirit was why fans all over the world, including me, loved them.

Quote
One test will be enough to demonstrate that.

Only if they fry an engine in the first test.

Loosing Toyota was an example of stability. F1 wouldn't re-write the rules to suit Toyota, like NASCAR did, so they failed and left. NASCAR brags that there rules are written in pencil, that they change from race to race.

Sauber, Williams, Minardi and the like stay in F1 because it's their sole reason for existence. They stay because it's their passion. It's just an advertising sideshow to the BMW's and Honda's of the world.
Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: John S on March 02, 2010, 05:47:16 PM

what did Brawn do this year after buying the dog Honda? Improved
their driver lineup is all
.

Baa! Baa!...... keep counting sheep in your dreams.  :P   

Mind you are half right Michael for Rubens is no contest. :D

Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Jericoke on March 02, 2010, 07:07:16 PM

Loosing Toyota was an example of stability. F1 wouldn't re-write the rules to suit Toyota, like NASCAR did, so they failed and left. NASCAR brags that there rules are written in pencil, that they change from race to race.

Sauber, Williams, Minardi and the like stay in F1 because it's their sole reason for existence. They stay because it's their passion. It's just an advertising sideshow to the BMW's and Honda's of the world.

I'd love 13 privateers in the field... but I don't know how anyone can expect to compete with Ferrari and McLaren on an ongoing basis without the advertising sideshow.

Is the current mechanism going to help out?  Honda, Toyota and BMW pulled out as their programmes regressed.  Conversely, McLaren and Ferrari had off seasons, and they just buckled down.  Would Mallya or Mateschitz keep their teams going if they suffered a collapse like Honda did?  (I hope so, but tough to say.)  How to know which teams will stick it out, and which will throw in the towel?

If the FIA lets USF1 sit out a season, what's to say they'll be ready for next year?  The team has had a full year to produce a racer, and don't seem to be close at all.  If they were to show up with a car that just isn't up to par (like Toyota did), then I can understand that... I can see that they're trying.  Maybe they've got something to show the FIA behind closed doors?  I can respect that.  But the idea that they'll be able to double their budget with zero product... it's a tough sell.

Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: John S on March 02, 2010, 07:23:57 PM


Im all for a US F1 team!!!Maybe Penske will show them how
to do it one day.

Roger had a go years ago and found it a lot harder than it looks. ;)

Penske entered a car for Mark Donahue in 74 & 75 seasons then in 76 ran John Watson, in 77 the Penske team became ATS but used the Penske PC4 chassis for one final year.

Carl Hass, another big name in Cart/Champ/Indy, also had a stab with a Beatrice funded Hass-Lola team in 85 & 86. He found it just as tough going and pulled out. Some good came from the Hass time in F1 though as Ross Brawn began his career as a designer for the team. :yahoo:





Title: Re: US F1 offers compensation to miss season
Post by: Dare on March 02, 2010, 09:01:46 PM
I think Mark Donahue's death soured
Penske's F1 dreams.If Mark hadn't
died I bet Penske would have been a
success just like he does in every form
of motorsports he enters
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