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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: FW14B on September 16, 2009, 12:25:51 PM

Title: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: FW14B on September 16, 2009, 12:25:51 PM
 :o 

From Autosport (but now everywhere):


Renault has announced that team boss Flavio Briatore and engineering chief Pat Symonds have parted company with the team and that it will "not dispute" the allegations of race-fixing when it appears before the World Motor Sport Council next week.

The team had been accused of asking driver Nelson Piquet to crash deliberately in order to cause a safety car period that would work to his team-mate Fernando Alonso's advantage. The Spaniard went on to win the race.

"The ING Renault F1 Team will not dispute the recent allegations made by the FIA concerning the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix," said a statement from the team.

"It also wishes to state that its managing director, Flavio Briatore and its executive director of engineering, Pat Symonds, have left the team.

"Before attending the hearing before the FIA World Motor Sport Council in Paris on 21 September 2009, the team will not make any further comment."
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Dare on September 16, 2009, 01:04:06 PM
I hate to hear this ,love or hate Flav he brings
a little flair to F1.

If you think about it how different is what Renault
did from letting a #1 driver win like other teams
have in the past
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Scott on September 16, 2009, 01:10:43 PM
Wow...well I guess young Piquet has really gotten his revenge.  Sorry to see both go (mostly Symonds).  I have no idea who Renault will replace them with.  I would expect that RenaultF1 is soon up for sale as well.

If I was young Nelson, I'd be looking over my shoulder a lot.   >:D >:D
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Andy B on September 16, 2009, 01:18:49 PM
If you think about it how different is what Renault
did from letting a #1 driver win like other teams
have in the past
I think it has to be realised that by crashing he was putting a large number of people at risk including himself, for once I have to agree with Mad Max!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8251027.stm  (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8251027.stm)

Letting your team mate past hurts only the spirit of the sport.
I think Piquet could be looking for a job outside of motorsport.

A sad day for F1 and motorsport in general as I'm sure there will be further repoccussion to this. :(
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: cosworth151 on September 16, 2009, 01:20:32 PM
I'm sorry to see Symonds go. Hopefully, he will return soon.

I personally think F1 will be better off without Briatore. I have about the same opinion of him that Mario Theissen seems to have.

It's starting to look it was Piquet, Sr. that started the ball rolling on this. I wonder if he'll ever show his face at a race again?
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Jericoke on September 16, 2009, 01:22:00 PM
That is a shock.

I can't help but see this as an admission of guilt for Flavio and Symonds.  If they really were party to causing a crash, then I'm glad to see them gone.

Flavio is the person I most associate with F1 though.  He really did represent 'the glamour' that F1 is supposed to be famous for.  Bernie might hold the cheque book, but he's not glamourous.  Max might hold the reigns, but the less said about his idea of 'glamour' the better.  Luca, Brawn, Dennis, they're strong competitors, but none of them bring flair to the sport.

I guess it's up to Vijay and his diamond earrings now.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: FW14B on September 16, 2009, 01:55:16 PM
I am genuinely shocked that both have resigned and that Renault are no longer contesting the charges.  I am not a legal guy but surely it is an admission of guilt from both parties and the team.  Either that or an acknowledgment that they cannot get out of this due to the Mad Max agenda.  I don't like Flav but he will be missed in F1 due to his eccentricities, Renault won't be the same without him.  I do like Pat and I think he always comes across very well and honest in interviews. 
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: cosworth151 on September 16, 2009, 02:18:13 PM
AutoWeek is now reporting that Symonds and Briatore were fired.

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090916/F1/909169998 (http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090916/F1/909169998)
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Scott on September 16, 2009, 02:47:51 PM
I wonder how Renault will function the rest of the season?  Without Symonds calling strategy and directing the upgrades (hopefully they're already in the pipeline), and Flavio bringing the girls, what will become of Renault?  Seriously, unless this pleases the FIA not to give a massive fine, then I think Renault will quietly bow out at the end of the season.

Hopefully, like someone already said, Symonds will return next season with another team, but as much as I thought Flav was the life of the party, most agree that his management style leaves much to be desired (a screaming bully), and I never liked the fact that he was a driver manager, sometime engine supplier, and team principal all at the same time - it was way too many conflicts of interest.

The unanswered question is, was Alonzo also complicit?  Everyone in the chats on the internet question how he would have agreed to that fuel strategy unless it had also been explained to him.  He would never have simply agreed to it simply because they told him to do it and that 'everything would be fine'.  If he was complicit, I don't see why his head wouldn't be on the chopping block too.  Perhaps Flav or Symonds will spill the beans on that side of the story someday.  

It's a bitter pill to swallow to see that blackmail actually works.  Way to go family Piquet.   >:D
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: John S on September 16, 2009, 04:28:52 PM
That is a shock.

I can't help but see this as an admission of guilt for Flavio and Symonds.  If they really were party to causing a crash, then I'm glad to see them gone.


 I feel this is more about damage limitation than guilt, If the two guys are not working for you the WMSC cannot demand that they appear in front of them, they cannot assume individual guilt from the non appearance but they will obviously record a guilty plea from the team. 

I don't know if the WMSC can impose any sanction on Flav & Pat other than the prevention of them taking part in FIA governed motorsport for allowing race fixing whilst managing the Renault team.

Renault may well have come to some financial or other arrangement with the two so the team can make sure there is no massive punishment in the wings. If they went in to the hearing with a not guilty plea and were found responsible for the crash by the WMSC a possible year ban at least was on the cards. This way they can probably, if they wish, stay in the championship. 

Another scenario is that Renault just think they did it too! :o

Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Jericoke on September 16, 2009, 04:33:49 PM

It's a bitter pill to swallow to see that blackmail actually works.  Way to go family Piquet.   >:D

Presumably if blackmail worked, Piquet would still be driving.

Good on Flavio for not giving in to it.

I guess.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Andy B on September 16, 2009, 07:08:08 PM
I'm in Singapore for the GP I could step into the breech!! :DD
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: david1275 on September 16, 2009, 08:28:26 PM
What a total shock. I am not the biggest fan of Flav but I agree he will be missed around the paddock. Pat Symonds will also be missed, he is a great tech man, but will probably turn up somewhere else.

If I were young Piquet I would be worried. Even though he has been offered immunity from punishment by the FIA for a full statement of events. With what looks like an admission of guilt from Renault, in my view the FIA should pursue him as he put others lives at risk with his actions. I don't believe that the fact that he my have been ordered to do what he done vindicates him. His ploy to gain revenge on his ex- employers has done serious damage to our sport and I hope we don't see his useless face in F1 again. I'm sure Max has a rye smile on his face today with Flavs downfall.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Ian on September 16, 2009, 09:08:42 PM
I find it unbelievable that a driver can be asked to crash, even more unbelievable is a driver agreeing to it, there are too many unknowns in a crash, anything can happen. Scotty, I hope Alonso was'nt party to it too as I have reversed my dislike of him.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: david1275 on September 17, 2009, 07:54:49 PM
I hope Alonso was'nt party to it too as I have reversed my dislike of him.

I agree Ian, I too had a dislike for Alonso but have grown to respect him. If he joins Ferrari I might grow to love him.

Love the new pic by the way mate. A tribute to the master.  :good: :yahoo: :good:
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: F1Charles on September 17, 2009, 09:46:35 PM
Like others I will miss Flav, he went from t shirt salesman to title winning F1 boss in like 3 years at Benetton so for an outsider to achieve what he has in F1 and his subsequent titles is a great achievement, I think he only attended his first ever F1 race in 1989 so to be able to outfox the likes of Frank Williams, Ron Dennis and so on who had been in F1 an eternity was impressive

He had to go sadly but I will miss him
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Scott on September 18, 2009, 11:02:08 AM
He went from a stock broker to buddy of Beneton.  Then he conned his way into a top job with him and afterwards left Beneton in his wake.  You can admire him for that, but I don't.  I do admire him in some ways for what he has accomplished in F1, but he has only done so because he has managed to find the right people to delegate to so he looks impressive.

I really don't think he spends that much time actually 'working'.

I'll miss his blue glasses and silver hair, but it's not as if he has really had much to say in the years he was in F1.  He was a celebrity, but I'm sure he kept his mouth shut at most of the policy or technical meetings.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: cosworth151 on September 18, 2009, 12:36:34 PM
Flav always struck me as the embodiment of what's wrong with F1. Way too much emphasis on glitz and way too little on racing. A lot of glamor and very little go. That's why we have parades in pretty settings rather than real races on real race tracks.

Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: aazz on September 18, 2009, 01:51:56 PM
Has there been any talk of the punishment that may be handed out to Renault over this affair if found guilty? What are the chances of a fine bigger than McLaren's a couple of years ago? Do the FIA consider race fixing worse than swapping confidential information or has a precedent already been set in a race fixing case before?

Sorry about all of the questions, I'm just thinking out loud. I still can't believe a anyone would crash on purpose.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Jericoke on September 18, 2009, 01:53:56 PM
Flav always struck me as the embodiment of what's wrong with F1. Way too much emphasis on glitz and way too little on racing. A lot of glamor and very little go. That's why we have parades in pretty settings rather than real races on real race tracks.



If people want racing, they can go do the local dirt track.  F1 has to be about more than that.  It's been packaged as 'glitz and glamour' for as long as I've known.  Without it, it just becomes corporate sponsorship junkets without a soul.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: cosworth151 on September 18, 2009, 02:20:44 PM
Quote
Has there been any talk of the punishment that may be handed out to Renault over this affair if found guilty?

That may be the reason for Flavio's exit. Max was out to get him, the same way he was with Ron Dennis at McLaren.

Sorry, Jeri, but when I think about F1, I think of people like Fangio, Clark, Chapman, Stewart, Minardi, none of whom were particularly glamorous. I'd take one race at Silverstone, Spa or Indy over all of the glam parades at Singapore, Valencia, Las Vegas. et al put together. What makes F1 different from dirt tracks used to be, and should be, the technology.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: John S on September 18, 2009, 03:12:05 PM
Quote
Has there been any talk of the punishment that may be handed out to Renault over this affair if found guilty?

That may be the reason for Flavio's exit. Max was out to get him, the same way he was with Ron Dennis at McLaren.

Sorry, Jeri, but when I think about F1, I think of people like Fangio, Clark, Chapman, Stewart, Minardi, none of whom were particularly glamorous. I'd take one race at Silverstone, Spa or Indy over all of the glam parades at Singapore, Valencia, Las Vegas. et al put together. What makes F1 different from dirt tracks used to be, and should be, the technology.

Stewart may not have been glamourous to present day F1 standards Cos, but he was a Pin up figure for the media and he played to that with trendy clothes and haircuts etc. back in the day. Oh and Jackie always had his attractive wife on hand at GPs as well.

In the same way Colin was the first to bring big money by way of sponsorship into F1 so he certainly upped the glamourous side of F1 and I believe enjoyed it as well. After all Colin was a flambouyant character as well as a talented one.

Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Scott on September 18, 2009, 04:00:21 PM

Sorry, Jeri, but when I think about F1, I think of people like Fangio, Clark, Chapman, Stewart, Minardi, none of whom were particularly glamorous. I'd take one race at Silverstone, Spa or Indy over all of the glam parades at Singapore, Valencia, Las Vegas. et al put together. What makes F1 different from dirt tracks used to be, and should be, the technology.

Well said.   :good: :good: :good:


As much as I would like to get a tour of one of those motorhomes, it is only for the incredibilness of them (much like I would like a tour of a superyacht) and to see how you can waste a year of my salary in building a bathroom.   :o :o
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Jericoke on September 18, 2009, 05:35:04 PM
Sorry, Jeri, but when I think about F1, I think of people like Fangio, Clark, Chapman, Stewart, Minardi, none of whom were particularly glamorous. I'd take one race at Silverstone, Spa or Indy over all of the glam parades at Singapore, Valencia, Las Vegas. et al put together. What makes F1 different from dirt tracks used to be, and should be, the technology.

Not all racing fans are F1 fans, and not all F1 fans are racing fans.

I agree, I want to watch the best drivers in the world drive the most advanced cars in the world.  I want them to leave everything on the track, and I don't give a s**t about what goes on behind the scenes, in the hospitality suites or anything else, as long as it doesn't get in the way of the racing.

If F1 only targets people like you, people like me, they won't exist.  They need more.  They need to be seen to be the best, they need the 'best' to want to be there, to watch F1, to be at F1 so other 'best' will be there too. 

I don't know if that's the best way to run F1, but it's the direction they've been going for years.  Are Dietrich, Branson and Mallya enough to replace Briatore?  I'm going to guess 'yes'.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: cosworth151 on September 18, 2009, 06:03:57 PM
The glitz if fine, Jeri. Your right, it is a big part of the show. Monaco is one of my favorite races every season. Events like the Jazz Festival and the Concours d'Elegance at Indy were great.

Where I draw the line is when the substance is sacrificed for the style. Taking races away from great, historic venues like Silverstone and Indy because they aren't in as "glamorous" a setting as Singapore and Valencia weakens the sport. Flavio was infamous for pushing that sort of thing.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: FW14B on September 18, 2009, 08:29:52 PM
F1 needs glamour, but is a guy in tight shirts with sweaty arm pits the man to provide that?  He has done some good for his teams, but I do not even think he adds glamour.  I think a team like Red Bull does more with it's appeal and the people it brings to races.  Ferrari adds glamour due to its heritage.  McLaren adds glamour due to its stunning livery.

Sadly I cannot add Williams to the glamour list.  Or maybe I can... Nico's wavey hair  :sick:  Maybe not.  We have as much glamour as a brickie showing his backside  :'(
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: romephius on September 19, 2009, 01:27:45 AM
F1 is bigger than any one person, Flav, missed by some, not by others (including me).  While he brought a certain amount of flair with what he did and how he did it, the entire show will move on un-harmed by his departure.   Like anything in life, F1 needs balance, the right balance of exposure and glamour with the right races, after all it's no good gathering a massive crowd only to bore them, aka Valencia.

The most memorable and glamorous thing in F1 for me, is Spa and seeing the cars go through Eau Rouge full tilt boogie.  It's simply incredible and boggles the mind, keeps me coming back for more. 

For those watching on TV, we want to see the racing, for those lucky enough to be at the track, they can experience all the glamour they want when the cars aren't on track.  Racing is paramount to any true F1 fan and Race fans in general.  If your in it for the glamour then your just lurking and wasting a proper spectators seat.  I'd suggest going and joining the mindless peons at the oscars red carpet ceremony, surely there's all the glamour needed.

As for crashing a car on purpouse, I say Piquet Jr is a weak minded fool, he would have gotten more respect (possibly fired) and more credibility as a driver had he done what the rest of us would do, and said no.  It's too risky and the reward could never out-weigh the risk.  Flav and co should be charged under occupational health and safety breaches and renault should be removed from the championship for allowing such a dangerous and obvious breach of the regulations to happen, just to make 1 driver happy.

I will not mis Flav one little bit, I've been sick of his do anything at anytime just to placate Fernando Alonso for years, even at the cost of a driver he was supposed to be managing, Pat Symonds is another who should have said no, surely he realised if they were caught it would be the end of his F1 career.

As always these are just my thoughts and opinions, and I could be wrong, and I mean no offence to anyone with them.

Rom
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Dare on September 19, 2009, 01:51:00 AM
Parabolica at Monza,the tunnel at Monaco,Maggotts and
Becketts at Silverstone,Eau Rouge at Spa!!!!Name me turns
with the flair in any other racing series.

Glamor is what drew me to F1 as a kid.Clark din't look like
it but he was glamorous.Stewart with his long hair and
mod clothes was glamorous.Just the names were glamorous
Bandini,Revson,Cevert,etc.

As much as wreckgate,cheatgate,and whatever annoying gate
comes next F1 has and always will be special.If we lose it I'll
stop following auto racing
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Willy on September 19, 2009, 04:48:00 AM
Quote
I'm in Singapore for the GP I could step into the breech!!

Go for it Andy.

As long as you are no relation to the Piquet Family, you have my vote!
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: Scott on September 19, 2009, 07:13:08 AM
I hear you might need to bring along a bit oxygen.  Chinese officials are worried about the smog levels again this year.  Hope you have a great time there Andy!  Smog or no smog, Any of us would love to be there with you.
Title: Re: Flav and Symonds leave Renault
Post by: FW14B on September 19, 2009, 08:31:22 AM
F1 is bigger than any one person, Flav, missed by some, not by others (including me).  While he brought a certain amount of flair with what he did and how he did it, the entire show will move on un-harmed by his departure.   Like anything in life, F1 needs balance, the right balance of exposure and glamour with the right races, after all it's no good gathering a massive crowd only to bore them, aka Valencia.

The most memorable and glamorous thing in F1 for me, is Spa and seeing the cars go through Eau Rouge full tilt boogie.  It's simply incredible and boggles the mind, keeps me coming back for more. 

For those watching on TV, we want to see the racing, for those lucky enough to be at the track, they can experience all the glamour they want when the cars aren't on track.  Racing is paramount to any true F1 fan and Race fans in general.  If your in it for the glamour then your just lurking and wasting a proper spectators seat.  I'd suggest going and joining the mindless peons at the oscars red carpet ceremony, surely there's all the glamour needed.

As for crashing a car on purpouse, I say Piquet Jr is a weak minded fool, he would have gotten more respect (possibly fired) and more credibility as a driver had he done what the rest of us would do, and said no.  It's too risky and the reward could never out-weigh the risk.  Flav and co should be charged under occupational health and safety breaches and renault should be removed from the championship for allowing such a dangerous and obvious breach of the regulations to happen, just to make 1 driver happy.

I will not mis Flav one little bit, I've been sick of his do anything at anytime just to placate Fernando Alonso for years, even at the cost of a driver he was supposed to be managing, Pat Symonds is another who should have said no, surely he realised if they were caught it would be the end of his F1 career.

As always these are just my thoughts and opinions, and I could be wrong, and I mean no offence to anyone with them.

Rom

Top, top post Rom  :good:
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