collapse

* Welcome

Welcome to GPWizard F1 Forum!

GPWizard is the friendliest F1 forum you'll find anywhere. You have a host of new like-minded friends waiting to welcome you.

So what are you waiting for? Becoming a member is easy and free! Take a couple seconds out of your day and register now. We guarantee, you wont be sorry you did.

Click Here to become a full Member for Free

* User Info

 
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

* Newsletter

GPWizard F1 Forum Newsletter Email address:
Weekly
Fortnightly
Monthly

* Grid Game Deadlines

Qualifying

Race

* Who's Online

  • Dot Guests: 45
  • Dot Hidden: 0
  • Dot Users: 1
  • Dot Users Online:

* Top Posters

cosworth151 cosworth151
15890 Posts
Scott Scott
14050 Posts
Dare Dare
12771 Posts
John S John S
10887 Posts
Ian Ian
9724 Posts

Author Topic: Hungary  (Read 513 times)

Offline Monty

Hungary
« on: July 31, 2022, 08:05:49 PM »
Let me start:
Ferrari - WTF???
Hamilton - could have won if it wasn’t for the Saturday DRS failure
McLaren - strange strategy. They seem to think their only race is with Alpine (and Ricardo had another awful day)
OK Verstappen, in his Red Bull, was clearly the fastest by far. But how lucky is he? Last week, LeClerc had a simple spin on knackered tyres and under immense pressure and he was out of the race; today Verstappen made a rookie mistake and got away with it!



Offline Dare

Re: Hungary
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2022, 11:16:14 PM »
WTF pretty much covers Ferrari. Has someone paid them off
        to throw races.?

Are the pit crew mad at Carlos? He lost over 4 seconds on two pit stops


Max must have signed a pact with the Devil. Turns what could have
been a race ending spin into a win.

Was I the only person think everyone was exceeding track limits?

Would have been nice to have had a downpour the last few races
"It's often said truth is the first casualty of war,"

Offline John S

  • F1 Legend
  • ****
  • Date Registered: Jan 2007
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Posts: 10887
  • 11550 credits
  • View Inventory
  • Send Money To John S
  • Max for 2nd title! - Just to see Toto's apoplexy.
Re: Hungary
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2022, 11:27:28 AM »
Heroes:-

Red Bull, obviously for seemingly being the only team on the grid with a proper strategy, right tyres - right time to put others under pressure. Oh, and Max for an unexpected win. Funny how luck works, it's like the Racing Gods are rewarding top performances.

Lando, for getting high up grid in quali and then converting that into best of the rest, lonely race easy to make mistakes - he didn't of course. 

Albon, even though he got clipped at the start and so fell miles behind with stop for new nose he still managed to roll over the line ahead of his teamate. Remember that's without aid of S/C as only virtual one late on.

Zeros:-

Ferrari, yes they cocked up strategy but I reckon they also cocked up the car set up which forced them into the strange strategies. Seems to me their car ate through tyres at a faster rate than most and the big mistake was starting on the mediums. Why do I say this; well they made no serious attempt to put George under pressure in first stint and then clearly didn't have proper pace to outrun RBR or even Merc after 1st stops. I think Charles going to Hards was hobsons choice, stopping when he did to cover off others, he'd already used up two sets of mediums another set, if available, would mean he'd have to stop again anyway. Carlos suffered in a different way by them trying to cover off Max earlier than expected in 1st stops. - Should've started on softs guys!  :P
 
McLaren, why the hell did they put Danny Ric onto hard tyres, again it was obvious from Alpine it was wrong direction. Danny Ric probably could just have made the points without that. Yes I know Lando was on Hards for last stint but he didn't have plenty of cars near at hand on faster rubber. Danny Ric had used softs, then mediums in 2nd stint so there was a free choice, unlike Ferrari.

Alfa & Alpha, come on guys get you act together. Now was Bottas DNF another Ferrari powertrain issue???   
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Willy

Re: Hungary
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2022, 02:45:40 PM »
I am trying to figure out which team is paying off the Ferarri strategists.  They started the season with bad decisions on Leclerc's car and have kept up a steady stream of them since. Not just Charles but Carlos as well. Time for Sideshow Mario to dance off into the sunset, methinks.
Red Bull gets it right again and Max pulls it out.
Merc had a great day, but maybe not George as he did not get the top or second step as he wanted.


Online cosworth151

Re: Hungary
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2022, 03:51:36 PM »
Two other zeroes:

The stewards - Torpedoed K-Mag with a totally unnecessary black & orange flag. The endplate had already stayed on for 6 laps after the hit.

Haas strategy - Just because some people think the updated car looks like a Ferrari doesn't mean you have to use Ferrari tire strategy.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline John S

  • F1 Legend
  • ****
  • Date Registered: Jan 2007
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Posts: 10887
  • 11550 credits
  • View Inventory
  • Send Money To John S
  • Max for 2nd title! - Just to see Toto's apoplexy.
Re: Hungary
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2022, 04:40:16 PM »
I am trying to figure out which team is paying off the Ferarri strategists.  They started the season with bad decisions on Leclerc's car and have kept up a steady stream of them since. Not just Charles but Carlos as well. Time for Sideshow Mario to dance off into the sunset, methinks.
Red Bull gets it right again and Max pulls it out.
Merc had a great day, but maybe not George as he did not get the top or second step as he wanted.

Think in all honesty Ferrari found the cooler conditions harder on their tyre performance than expected. Pirelli's Mario Isola is on record as being suprised about Max's pace on the tyres in race since Ferrari were comfortably ahead on long run pace earlier in w/e when temps were higher. So even on better strategy they may still have lost out to Max and the Mercs

Hey just realised that last bit sounds like a rock band form the 70s/80s era.  :D
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Hungary
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2022, 09:04:51 PM »
Maybe it's time to throw a bit of shade Pirelli's way. When nearly every team complains about difficulty in "switching on" the tires, maybe they need to sort tires with a wider window? However, I think in this case Ferrari pitted LeClerc too soon. They were pretty gentle with the mediums at the start, then brought him in soon after Max, when Max was on softs. They should have used Lewis' strategy of M/M/S. Surely the Merc isn't that much easier on tires than the Ferrari? I heard a strategist at Aston just left the team, Ferrari might try her, can't do any worse than they are doing now.
Lonny

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Hungary
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2022, 09:54:40 PM »
Maybe it's time to throw a bit of shade Pirelli's way. When nearly every team complains about difficulty in "switching on" the tires, maybe they need to sort tires with a wider window? However, I think in this case Ferrari pitted LeClerc too soon. They were pretty gentle with the mediums at the start, then brought him in soon after Max, when Max was on softs. They should have used Lewis' strategy of M/M/S. Surely the Merc isn't that much easier on tires than the Ferrari? I heard a strategist at Aston just left the team, Ferrari might try her, can't do any worse than they are doing now.

The problem is that Hungary's temperatures can vary by over 20 C. If Hungary had been in the deepest heatwave possible, anything other than hard would have been useless.

Sainz used Hamilton's strategy and couldn't make it work due to stopping too early out of necessity. However, Leclerc had enough tyre life left to make it viable. Even inters would have been a better pick in that moment than hards (and yes, Dad and I had a discussion as to whether a non-hard dry or inters were a better choice under the circumstances. I concede Dad was right).

Bernie Collins would definitely be a better Ferrari strategist than the current strategists.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Scott

Re: Hungary
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2022, 10:04:27 PM »
I was blown away when Ferrari put Charles on hards after millions of us watching saw Alonso lose a place per lap after Alpine did.  Did you see Binotto run into the garage after a few laps of Leclerc struggling on the bungled tire choice?  I read an article that says Binotto May be replaced during the summer break.

As for Sainz and the pit stop where the team seemed to count to two after the tires were changed before they let him go - I think Sainz wouldn’t move over for Charles so the team moved him over in the pit stop.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: Hungary
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2022, 10:15:36 PM »
That's exactly what I thought. I think Sainz is feeling unappreciated and won't be following any team orders unless hard pressed.
Lonny

Offline John S

  • F1 Legend
  • ****
  • Date Registered: Jan 2007
  • Location: Lincolnshire, UK
  • Posts: 10887
  • 11550 credits
  • View Inventory
  • Send Money To John S
  • Max for 2nd title! - Just to see Toto's apoplexy.
Re: Hungary
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2022, 12:49:08 PM »

The problem is that Hungary's temperatures can vary by over 20 C. If Hungary had been in the deepest heatwave possible, anything other than hard would have been useless.

Sainz used Hamilton's strategy and couldn't make it work due to stopping too early out of necessity. However, Leclerc had enough tyre life left to make it viable. Even inters would have been a better pick in that moment than hards (and yes, Dad and I had a discussion as to whether a non-hard dry or inters were a better choice under the circumstances. I concede Dad was right).


Due to your first para about track temps I'm not sure any in race tyre strategy could have Ferrari winning that race. However I'm not convinced that early stop for Sainz was necessary, his pace on mediums was not good enough to seriously challenge George on softs so attempting to cover off his Merc was always probably doomed to failure, but worse than that they gave Carlos a unenviable task later in race being miles out of synch on the MMS strategy.

Would've made more sense for an alternate strategy to put Carlos on hards at that point in the race, had he not been leading of course, Alpine failure with the hard was not known at the time.

This propensity for covering off others is a dangerous game when tyre performance is an unkown in the equation. Red Bull Got it right by starting on softs, I'm of the opinion Ferrari cocked up on starting grid, should've had a split strat one on each, the rest was probably inevitable from both on medium.
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: Hungary
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2022, 02:02:04 PM »
Maybe it's time to throw a bit of shade Pirelli's way. When nearly every team complains about difficulty in "switching on" the tires, maybe they need to sort tires with a wider window? However, I think in this case Ferrari pitted LeClerc too soon. They were pretty gentle with the mediums at the start, then brought him in soon after Max, when Max was on softs. They should have used Lewis' strategy of M/M/S. Surely the Merc isn't that much easier on tires than the Ferrari? I heard a strategist at Aston just left the team, Ferrari might try her, can't do any worse than they are doing now.

Honestly, I don't know why Pirelli continues to supply F1.  All they do is provide the exact tires they've been asked to by the FIA, and when they force the teams to actually figure out a workable tire strategy they get blasted by the drivers, teams and fans.

Honestly, without refueling, making the tires a challenge brings something to the sport.  If the tires were predictable and reliable, everyone would be on the same strategy.  As it is, work has to be done to use them right, and the teams/drivers willing to do the work succeed.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Hungary
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2022, 07:18:21 PM »
Due to your first para about track temps I'm not sure any in race tyre strategy could have Ferrari winning that race. However I'm not convinced that early stop for Sainz was necessary, his pace on mediums was not good enough to seriously challenge George on softs so attempting to cover off his Merc was always probably doomed to failure, but worse than that they gave Carlos a unenviable task later in race being miles out of synch on the MMS strategy.

Would've made more sense for an alternate strategy to put Carlos on hards at that point in the race, had he not been leading of course, Alpine failure with the hard was not known at the time.

Haas' failure on the hards, on the other hand, was already known, because Magnussen had bailed out of it on lap 9. And that was probably the best point in the race for the hard tyres.

The medium tyres were still working on Leclerc's car (analysis I've seen indicates he was going as fast on the mediums as Hamilton was going on the softs at that point, and they'd have lasted at least as long as Lewis' tyre). If those tyres had been left on for the 12-15 laps that seems reasonable (bear in mind Lewis' tyres lasted 5 laps beyond the point Leclerc switched), then switched to softs (by which point the tyres would have been even faster than when he eventually switched to them and did the fastest stint of the race), then that would have been a much better strategy and, in my view, a race-winning one.

For that matter, intermediates would have been a better idea than hards. At least they'd have switched on for a couple of laps before catching fire and needing to be replaced at the same point the hards were replaced!

(Whatever strategy Carlos was on, it should have involved removing that plastic bag!)
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

 


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
Menu Editor Pro 1.0 | Copyright 2013, Matthew Kerle