F1 Freezes Out Colton Herta

[cosworth151]

F1 has denied a super license to Colton Herta. The IndyCar star was on the way to replacing Pierre Gasly at AlphaTauri.

The points system that the super license system is based on is heavily weighted against IndyCar drivers. The points for finishing in the top 5 places in F2 are 40,40,40,30,20. The points for finishing in the top 5 places in IndyCar are 40,30,20,10,8.

So much for Liberty Media want more American drivers.

The following two articles have some overlap but enough different info that I'm attaching them both. I noted one mistake common both of them. The state that Liberty has 3 F1 races in the States. the fact is that there are 3 F1 "Destination City" weekends on the 2023 schedule. The last real F1 race over here was in 2007. 

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/indycar/a41283918/fia-super-license-system-unfair-to-indycar-drivers-needs-an-overhaul/

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/indycar/a41268197/f1-facing-criticism-from-indycar-drivers-after-herta-denial/

BTW-I really like the t-shirt that Newgarden & McLaughlin have on their Bus Brothers site.

[Jericoke]

It still bothers me that 'F1' is controlled by many organizations, and not a single one.  Liberty, who promotes F1, gets no say in how the Super License is handed out.  That's the FIA who gets no say in where the races are held (although they get to nix any ineligible track, though from what I've read, they don't seem to care much about that).

I'm all for the super license concept.  Having anyone just show up and race is a recipe for disaster, which is why the 107% rule was created.  That's why the Indianapolis 500 Mile Race requires extra testing for rookies, and if anyone feels that 'rookie' hasn't proven themselves, they can be sent to the back where they won't endanger many people.  Even if a driver has a so called 'super license' if they show up to the Indy 500 for the first time, they're treated as rookies and must prove themselves.

So, instead of this existing system, why not create an annual 'super license test'.  ANYONE who wants to compete in F1 in the following season must complete a race distance test in a Formula One spec car.  (I should think a single season in any FIA sanctioned series would be enough?  Isn't that about what Max and Kimi had?)

I see this solves a couple problems:
1)  Drivers who hang on to the sport too long will find themselves moving aside if they really can't compete any more.
2)  Drivers really CAN just show up and prove they belong in F1 without the required resources to spend years in FIA feeder series.  (Certainly climbing the ladder still makes sense, but drivers can follow a path that makes sense to them)
3)  Without knowing who is and isn't eligible to race next season, we won't have a farcical 'silly season' detracting from the actual racing season.  (I suppose that's a plus or a minus, depending on if you prefer racing or Drive to Survive  Everyone is allowed to be a fan in their own way)

[Dare]

Would most American's want to cancel the so called races here. I think not.

[cosworth151]

I think we'd prefer a real race track with reasonable pricing. Miami had the highest priced tickets of last season (tied with Monaco) and does anybody remember anything about it other than that silly fake lake?

If Liberty wants a "Destination City" why not Long Beach? It's provided good racing for decades and proved that they can handle everything involved with a race weekend. Why settle for a few cabin cruisers sitting on trailer surrounded by fabric when you can race by the Queen Mary sitting in the Pacific Ocean?

Everyone agrees that a rookie driver shouldn't be allowed in F1, that they should have to prove themselves in lower series. Why not hold tracks to the same standard? Make them prove that they can handle everything involved with a race weekend and, most importantly, provide good racing before they get a shot at the big time.

[Jericoke]

If Liberty wants a "Destination City" why not Long Beach? It's provided good racing for decades and proved that they can handle everything involved with a race weekend.

As far as I know, the reason why IndyCar bought ChampCar was to secure the rights to the Long Beach race for themselves, otherwise, why not just let ChampCar fail?

Certainly the Long Beach race is fantastic, has hosted F1 in the past, gives you access to Los Angeles which is what Miami aspires to be.  The question is if The Captain wants to share his toys.  Sure, IMS was happy to have F1 cars, but not on the same circuit so no one could compare apples to apples.  (As far as I know the last time F1 and American open wheel cars have raced the same circuit in the same year was 2006 when CART raced in Montreal, and the gap between the lap times would have had the CART pole outside of the 107% rule)

[Andy B]

The only thing I remember of Miami was how terrible it was it was nothing about racing at all.

[Dare]

I'd settle for 2 races here. Watkins Glen and Long Beach

[Alianora La Canta]

I like Jeri's idea about the annual all-comers test - although there would have to be extra seats out there (perhaps by requiring teams to put more than two drivers through the test - I'd be in favour of requiring four over the course of a four-day test, assuming one car per team - with permission for drivers to try out for multiple teams in the same 4-day test if they have never raced a F1 car or by special exemption).

Miami felt like a race in a pound shop, more like Mansfield than Miami (Mansfield isn't bad, it's just low-rent and looks the same as a lot of other places). I have very little faith in Las Vegas working out given the approach so far has been similar. I don't think going to Long Beach or Watkins Glen would help as Liberty seems to think the secret to success in the USA is to make really expensive stuff look really cheap and samey.

[lkjohnson1950]

Watkins Glen is a great track with a much greater elevation change than is apparent on TV. The problem is, it would take millions to bring it up to F1 spec even if the FIA cut them some slack as they seem to do for Miami, Zandvoort, etc. The same could be said for any other track in the US with the possible exception of Indy. The Glen also has another problem, it's in the middle of nowhere. It's hours of driving from hotels and restaurants. You are pretty much stuck at the track, especially for food and I don't just mean lunch. Further, access to the track is limited. A crowd of 100K would cause a traffic jam that might last days. It's a shame because it is a great track for viewing as well as racing. I wish they would only use the bus stop at the end of the straight for NASCAR though I understand why they must keep it in for everyone.

[cosworth151]

When Larry Miller built what is now Utah Motorsports Campus, he built it to then current (2005) FIA F1 specs. I don't know if Geely kept that up to date when they took it over after Larry's death in 2015. Nearby Salt Lake City should have plenty of hotel & restaurant space.

[lkjohnson1950]

In the past it was easier to obtain a Superlicense. This video looks at a number of WDCs who would not have been eligible to race in their debut if the current system had been in place then.

[Jericoke]

In the past it was easier to obtain a Superlicense. This video looks at a number of WDCs who would not have been eligible to race in their debut if the current system had been in place then.

I've been watching F1 for a long time, most of the WDC winners I've seen all looked like potential winners from day 1.  Not everyone who looked like a potential champion has won, but no one has won that didn't look like a champion.

I wasn't sold on Button being a champion at first, but back then I only saw race day coverage, none of the behind the scenes, testing coverage.  It took a while for Button to find his place in the sport. I was surprised when Massa put on his push in 2008, but he never did win.  Rosberg seemed like a champ in waiting who would never get his chance until he did.  But Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton, Vettel and (grudgingly) Max were all clearly going to win championships given half a chance.

The modern superlicence was put in to stop rich kids skipping the younger series and going straight into F1 (rich kids still get advantages in the lower series, so FIA still gets their kickbacks).  The other thing it was meant to do was stop the arms race of finding the youngest 'diamond in the rough'.  Certainly Alonso, Kimi, Vettel and Max were all very young when they entered the sport (and all belonged in F1), and I really felt like the teams would eventually take a risk on a 16 year old, and the FIA was worried about a 16 year old in a major crash would cause public opinion to shut the sport down entirely. 

SO... I think 18 is a reasonable floor for entry to F1 (that's the minimum age for North American pro sports).  The question is what other qualifications are 'fair'?  Is the current system enough, with an adjustment for IndyCar (after all, Herta might not have enough superlicence points, but he's beaten drivers who have earned a superlicence)?  Is there room for a second tier 'superlicence' series?  I don't know the requirements to get into F2, but maybe everyone in F2 is already F1 qualified, and you're just required to do a single season in F2 before you do F1?

[John S]

SO... I think 18 is a reasonable floor for entry to F1 (that's the minimum age for North American pro sports).  The question is what other qualifications are 'fair'?  Is the current system enough, with an adjustment for IndyCar (after all, Herta might not have enough superlicence points, but he's beaten drivers who have earned a superlicence)?  Is there room for a second tier 'superlicence' series?  I don't know the requirements to get into F2, but maybe everyone in F2 is already F1 qualified, and you're just required to do a single season in F2 before you do F1?

Jeri, F2 gets points from 1st at 40 down to 10th on 3 at end of championship year so not everyone gets them. 1st,2nd & 3rd all get 40 points each though - only 1st in Indy gets 40, 2nd 30, 3rd 20. 

What's even more crazy is F3 get almost as many points as Indycar. F3 gets 30 for 1st, 25 2nd & 20 for 3rd, then goes ahead with 4th on 15 down to 10th on 2. (Indy gets 10 for 4th down to 1 for 10th. Unbelievable when you think two years of 3rd in F3 can get you F1 superlicense. 

Indy Lights however comes below all other regional single seat formula with just 15 for 1st, 12 for 2nd & 10 for 3rd, then points fall gradually to 1 but only to 8th place.

Now the big rub! W series gets the same points as Indy Lights, from 1st to 8th, however W series struggles along with a 270hp 4 cylinder engine which is about 110hp less than F3s V6 but a whopping 150hp less than Indy Lights V8s.    Looks as fair as hunting a crow in a coalhole dunnit!