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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: cosworth151 on March 19, 2014, 11:41:13 AM

Title: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: cosworth151 on March 19, 2014, 11:41:13 AM
The mini-motor really are the gift that keeps on giving. F1 actually got some mass media coverage here in the States. I listen to NPR's Morning Edition almost every day. They just did a short piece on F1 - about how bad the new cars sound.

The title of the piece was "Racetrack Soundtrack Goes From A Roar To A Purr." They played the sound of both this year's and last year's cars.

It seems to me that NPR would be exactly the audience that the FIA targeted with their politically correct car. Once again, they blew it.

http://www.npr.org/2014/03/19/291312013/racetrack-soundtrack-goes-from-a-roar-to-a-purr
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Scott on March 19, 2014, 12:18:34 PM
Wow, if that isn't edited for volume, it's shocking, and I will have to change my 'I'll get used to it' vote.

Guess I won't have to hunt for my earplugs when I head off to Spain.  ;)
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Jericoke on March 19, 2014, 02:18:55 PM
Wow, if that isn't edited for volume, it's shocking, and I will have to change my 'I'll get used to it' vote.

Guess I won't have to hunt for my earplugs when I head off to Spain.  ;)

That's one of the things that kind of gets me about the 'noise' debate.  Everyone at the track is wearing ear protection, and yet we're worried it's too quiet?

If you have to quiet it down to even hear it, isn't that by definition too loud?

For the TV audience, they just need to move the microphones closer to the track, and the race will be plenty loud.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Ian on March 19, 2014, 02:25:45 PM
Even with ear protection it's loud, going by the comparison on Cos's post if you use ear protection with these engines you won't hear a sound. Give me the scream of V8's or V10's anytime, you don't only hear them, you feel them too, it goes right through you, wonderful sounds.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Scott on March 19, 2014, 05:44:15 PM
Even with ear protection it's loud, going by the comparison on Cos's post if you use ear protection with these engines you won't hear a sound. Give me the scream of V8's or V10's anytime, you don't only hear them, you feel them too, it goes right through you, wonderful sounds.

Exactly.  Ask Ian, when we were standing by the tunnel at Monza and an F1 car came through, it was like you were pounded in the chest (yes, that's a wonderful, if frightening feeling), and even with ear protection, you don't hear anything like the sound these new cars seem to make.

But anyhow, we are all F1 fans and don't really care about the sound as much as we care how they race...the sound is really about the live experience.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Jericoke on March 19, 2014, 06:17:29 PM
Even with ear protection it's loud, going by the comparison on Cos's post if you use ear protection with these engines you won't hear a sound. Give me the scream of V8's or V10's anytime, you don't only hear them, you feel them too, it goes right through you, wonderful sounds.

Does Bernie get a cut of ear plug sales?

I've yet to read anyone complain about not getting the viseral 'oomph' from a passing F1 car... just pictures of people with ear protection complaining it's not loud enough.

Is there a minimum distance required for this 'oomph'?  Has it changed from the V8s to the turbos?
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 19, 2014, 06:58:17 PM
If you are in serious need of "oomph" go to an NHRA race, stand as close to the start line as possible for either of the Nitro classes. Makes F1 seem rather tame "oomph" wise.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: cosworth151 on March 19, 2014, 08:40:32 PM
I haven't heard of anyone liking the kitten cars, except for those mouthing the FIA line. During the course of last week-end, I repeatedly heard people in the paddock say that they didn't need earplugs anymore. They were even able to conduct interviews beside the cars as they were being revved.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Ian on March 19, 2014, 11:04:14 PM
I remember that well Scott, what a great weekend that was.  :good:
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Scott on March 20, 2014, 10:22:26 AM
The 'Oomph' was just an expression of the power of the sound at an F1 car, you don't feel it anywhere else but a tunnel opening or perhaps at trackside, and I doubt you feel it at all with the new engines.  I don't need it, and probably couldn't tolerate it from every car through an entire race, but nobody is going to convince me that the new sound even approaches the scream of the old engines, and yes, I did like that scream and considered it part of the F1 experience.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Ian on March 20, 2014, 02:25:46 PM
I agree Scott, the sound plays a large part of the experience, although without earplugs in the covered grandstand on the start/finish straight when they're at full throttle was really painful, but exciting too.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Jericoke on March 20, 2014, 03:13:57 PM
I haven't heard of anyone liking the kitten cars, except for those mouthing the FIA line. During the course of last week-end, I repeatedly heard people in the paddock say that they didn't need earplugs anymore. They were even able to conduct interviews beside the cars as they were being revved.

So F1 can now be a social occasion?

That sounds good to me.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: cosworth151 on March 20, 2014, 04:03:10 PM
Maybe for a garden party, but certainly not the pinnacle of motorsports.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: John S on March 20, 2014, 08:26:56 PM
Maybe for a garden party, but certainly not the pinnacle of motorsports.

Not sure the loudest noise is really how the pinnacle is judged Cossie.   ;)

I recall the days of Formula 5000 when the Chevy 302ci cacophony drowned the best efforts of the F1 workhorse Cosworth DFV. Yet no one would suggest the 5000 series, entertaining and noisy as it was, came even close to F1 in speed, technology or glamour. 

 
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: cosworth151 on March 21, 2014, 11:35:54 AM
That was because they were 302 Chevys. If they had been Boss 302 Fords.......   :yahoo:   :yahoo:   ;)

When she was a teen-ager, my daughter had a t-shirt from The Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. It had a small R&R Hall of Fame logo on the front. On the back, in large letters, it said, "If it's too loud, you're too old!"
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Ian on March 21, 2014, 11:37:38 AM
Like it Cos, yup, racing machines SHOULD be loud.  :good:
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Jericoke on March 21, 2014, 02:12:33 PM
Like it Cos, yup, racing machines SHOULD be loud.  :good:

You won't find one engineer who agrees with you.  To an engineer the sound of the engine is the sound of wasted energy.  A perfect race car should be silent, putting every bit of power into winning.  (Just as Chapman's perfect car fall apart on the finish line)
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Ian on March 21, 2014, 03:29:01 PM
Engineers opinions don't interest me, I love the ear-shattering sound of a fully tuned racing machine.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: vintly on March 21, 2014, 03:50:54 PM
You won't find one engineer who agrees with you.  To an engineer the sound of the engine is the sound of wasted energy.  A perfect race car should be silent, putting every bit of power into winning.  (Just as Chapman's perfect car fall apart on the finish line)

I get your point but loud sounds require a relatively tiny amount of energy, compared to what is required to move a vehicle.

It's interesting how emotive sound is. Although the sound of these new cars makes absolutely zero difference to the potential results of a race, it really has made a big difference to many people, even those who only watch on TV.

I've reserved judgement until I hear them live, and up until now have thought that I probably won't mind an awful lot, plus it will be slightly easier to talk to the person next to you. However I fear it will be a slight disappointment, hopefully not one great enough to reduce the overall enjoyment.



 



Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Scott on March 21, 2014, 04:00:28 PM
Talk?  You had better be quiet when you're next to me!   :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: vintly on March 21, 2014, 04:23:10 PM
Now what did I do with that ticket? It was bin-day today.. Surely I haven't… No - can't be…
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Scott on March 21, 2014, 05:00:53 PM
Now what did I do with that ticket? It was bin-day today.. Surely I haven't… No - can't be…

 :P :P
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Irisado on March 21, 2014, 09:34:33 PM
Something I think that has been overlooked here is the possible hearing damage to those who work in Formula 1.  Yes, I know that earplugs have been mandatory for some time, but is that enough?  Also, the crowd don't have access to earplugs, unless they've brought their own.

I'm not for one minute suggesting that was a factor in the change of the rules, but it's one positive impact that I think may inadvertently come from this.  Certainly the mechanics, engineers, and others who work with the cars every day may well be grateful.  It would be interesting to know what they think.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: John S on March 21, 2014, 10:40:26 PM
Also, the crowd don't have access to earplugs, unless they've brought their own.


At Silverstone they hand out packs of earplugs at the gate, if you want them, when you enter any day of an F1 GP weekend. I know as I attended Fri & Sat practice in 2011 & Fri 2012.
I suspect most other tracks around the world, well Europe anyway, do the same to avoid lawsuits from ambulance chasers - or should that be chancers.  :D

Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Ian on March 21, 2014, 10:47:11 PM
I got them at Monza too John, but I'd taken a supply of them anyway, before I went to Monza I'd checked on the internet to see what the likely decibels were, yup, earplugs needed.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: cosworth151 on March 22, 2014, 12:31:37 AM
I know of one engineer who agrees with me....

Me!

BSME Ohio University 1978   ;)
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Jericoke on March 22, 2014, 06:05:29 PM
I know of one engineer who agrees with me....

Me!

BSME Ohio University 1978   ;)

So slower is okay as long as it's louder?
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: cosworth151 on March 22, 2014, 06:37:58 PM
Quiet is as out of place at a motor race as it is at a rock concert. The sound is an integral part of the sport, the experience.

And remember, F1 cars are far from being the fasted race cars in the world any more.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Warmwater on March 23, 2014, 07:56:31 PM
The emphasis should be on the quality of the sound, not the volume.

I love the sound of a: Spitfire (plane not Triumph); Harley Davidson; V-12 Ferrari; BSA 500 Single; Kenworth T800; Austin Healey; etc.

I do not love the incessant annoying scream of recent F1 cars and will not miss it.  :fool:
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Irisado on March 24, 2014, 11:20:36 PM
At Silverstone they hand out packs of earplugs at the gate, if you want them, when you enter any day of an F1 GP weekend. I know as I attended Fri & Sat practice in 2011 & Fri 2012.
I suspect most other tracks around the world, well Europe anyway, do the same to avoid lawsuits from ambulance chasers - or should that be chancers.  :D

I got them at Monza too John, but I'd taken a supply of them anyway, before I went to Monza I'd checked on the internet to see what the likely decibels were, yup, earplugs needed.

Thanks for posting that information guys.  I did not know that they were given out, although I ought to have guessed really, as it make sense for EU countries at least.  It may also be a universal requirement.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Ian on March 25, 2014, 12:31:10 AM
Silly thing is that I've got a friend who's a fully qualified track marshal, he was one of the British contingent who marshal'd at the 1st Abu Dhabi GP, he never wears earplugs, and he's right at the trackside.  :crazy:
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 25, 2014, 06:14:52 AM
I've been to hundreds of races from F1 to IMSA in it's heyday, to Can-AM to AMA road course with 750 2 strokes, lots of concerts and never wore earplugs. Now I have a stylish pair of hearing aids.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Ian on March 25, 2014, 10:22:14 AM
Whoops.  :DD  :DD
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Scott on March 25, 2014, 10:38:09 AM
I've been to hundreds of races from F1 to IMSA in it's heyday, to Can-AM to AMA road course with 750 2 strokes, lots of concerts and never wore earplugs. Now I have a stylish pair of hearing aids.

My Dad always loved his - used to turn them off when there was too much racket going on for him, or whenever he felt like having a snooze.   ;)
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Scott on March 28, 2014, 07:37:39 AM
Kate Walker brings along a conspiracy theory that's not far off what some have been saying.  :crazy:

http://m.crash.net/f1/feature/201540/1/kate-walker-the-sound-of-a-conspiracy.html
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: cosworth151 on March 28, 2014, 11:23:54 AM
I see that she has fallen for the FIA's newspeak, "the V8s that would have heralded the end of Formula One had we persisted in using them." As history has proven, just the opposite is true. NASCAR tried to force V6's on fans in the Busch (now Nationwide) series. they were universally hated and almost killed the series.

F1 will prosper with V-12's V-10's and/or V8's. V6's are strictly for undercard series, and turbo-mufflers only make it worse. They are about as exotic and inspiring as an old sock.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: vintly on March 28, 2014, 02:39:28 PM
'…exotic and inspiring as an old sock' !

Cos, I am truly enjoying your continued vitriol for these new 'engines', so much so that you're winning me round. And if Vettel thinks they sound sh*t then that's good enough for me  ;)

I'll reserve judgement until I've heard them live, but look forward to joining you in the vocal disapproval, and can't wait to make up new and amusing phrases to describe how pathetic they sound. It made me laugh that the Sky F1 edits still use the old V8 scream, and during FP1 there was a funny moment when only one car was on track, and Crofty said 'Let's listen to the engine for a minute'. He went quiet and all you could hear was the hovering helicopter. It was laughable.

However, the whole issue of the sound doesn't result in any reduction of enjoyment of the sport as a whole for me - I guess I'm not a true petrol-head - it's just a slightly sad side-issue. It's danger I miss more, not sound. Tracks are too safe.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 29, 2014, 05:58:06 AM
The new engines may be uninspiring, but they are far more exotic and will ultimately be more powerful than the V8s they replaced.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Ian on March 29, 2014, 12:33:12 PM
The cars on my old Gran Turismo 4 sound better than these F1 cars.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: cosworth151 on March 29, 2014, 03:03:15 PM
Being overly complex & gadget ridden does not make them more exotic.

Remember the Jaguar XJ220? Don't worry, very few do. It was going to be Jaguar entry into the supercar market. It would have a majorly tweaked version of Jag's then-current V-12 engine & capable of 220 mph. The entire production run was sold out before the first car was built.

When the car was released, it performed as promised. The was one change. The V-12 was replaced with a turbo V-6. Most purchasers refused delivery and demanded refunds. Jag had a hard time moving the cars even at massively discounted prices. To this day, the cars bring a small fraction of the price that cars of similar performance bring. Why? Because the V-6 is just inherently the blandest of engine configurations. You can put lipstick on a pig, but it will still be a pig.

The turbo V-6 engine went on to find a more appropriate home in the ultimate hot hatch, the MG Metro 6R4.
Title: Re: More Bad Press for F1
Post by: Scott on March 29, 2014, 03:13:01 PM
Haha...Bernie likes them now.  I know what, put mic's near the exhausts, then amplify them and play it through the PA system. 

http://m.bbc.com/sport/formula1/26783422
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