GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: mrkjf on July 25, 2009, 02:38:07 PM
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Thank the lord Massa is ok,now its going to be the Brawn thats under investigation because of the suspention failure just like Sir Frank Williams was in that tragic year,just as it should be.The FIA want cost cutting but does all agree the more testing is the key to safety.
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Ok is relative - somehow I doubt he'll be racing tomorrow.
I completely disagree mrkjf. I don't like to see anyone hurt in any sport, but if a spring falls off a car as it goes over a curb too hard or something, and it is by small chance bouncing down the track, and by tiny chance that it hits another car, and by an even tinier chance it actually injures another driver, means that the offending team (the one that lost the spring) gets investigated, penalized or charged with anything - then something is seriously wrong in the world of motorsports. Better move on to track and field if you agree with that.
I couldn't guess at the odds of such a thing happening are, but I'd say they are certainly in the billions to one.
Should it have happened? No, but could anyone really have prevented it - or as you say could any amount of testing have prevented it? No. Should they just take all the small bits off the cars and have straight axles, no suspension, lose the mirrors, wings, brake ducts, onboard cameras, any other carbon-fibre bits, ban tear-offs from visors and basically have steel bathtubs with two axles and a bit of rope to steer (wait, the bolt might fall out that holds the 2x4 and the front wheels - forget steering)? Hoo boy, wouldn't that be fun to watch! Oh yeah, and since I first thought he hit a bird, that could be a danger too, so let's only have races inside controlled domes.
I hope Massa is OK, but I doubt even he thinks it is anything but a freak accident. In '94, I think it is generally agreed that a steering column failed, which led to the accident. The suspension broke in the impact (as it would have in most accidents of even todays F1 cars) and a piece of it killed Senna - again the chances of it happening or happening again are minute. No amount of testing could have prevented it.
You are big on testing, but I'm not so sure it would solve very many of the problems you refer to.
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It seems pretty serious :( I hope Felipe can recover fully from this.
Felipe Massa will miss tomorrow's Hungarian Grand Prix after his accident during qualifying for the Hungarian Grand Prix.
Massa was hit by debris - believed to be a spring from another car- flying from the track in the dying moments of Q2.
The Brazilian appeared to lose consciousness as his car careered into the tyre wall at high speed. Massa was first taken to the medical centre and then airlifted to a Budapest hospital, where he was stable and conscious.
Pictures taken after the accident showed that Massa's helmet had been seriously damaged by the hit and that he was even bleeding.
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"Following a complete medical examination it emerged that he had suffered a cut on his forehead, a bone damage of his skull and a brain concussion. These conditions need to be operated on after which he will remain under observation in intensive care."
He will not be racing tomorrow. Hopefully he recovers and quickly.
I asked Cos about Ferrari's reserve driver in chat, but had to run before he responded...anyone know who their reserve driver is? Is it Badoer?
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Not sure who it is to be honest, either Badoer or Gene as both are listed on the F1 page as official test drivers.
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I was trying to look it up when I had to take a call (I'm at the office). I still haven't seen who Ferrari is going to start. I'm also not sure about the procedure for a replacement driver. Will he start from Massa's 10th position, from the back of the grid, or from the pits.
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I'd think from the back or the pits...I think only Massa would be entitled to his 10th place Q, not Ferrari.
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Is the reserve driver allowed?
I thought they had to take part in qualifying? :DntKnw:
I hope Massa has a speedy and full recovery. :good:
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Now they are saying that Massa is in a life-threatening condition, that he is in a medically induced coma and that he may be awakened tomorrow. Honestly, when I saw it, I thought he might not survive it. Reports say that his helmet had a 'fist-sized' dent in it (which to me is a relief since I thought it went through his visor and I think would have been certainly fatal). I hope he recovers completely.
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Stumbled across a photo of him on a football forum of all places... He did not look good. And his helmet did look bad. I wish I had not seen it.
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Felipe Massa is my favorite driver in F1, and the nicest man on the grid. I really really hope he is OK. He's due to be a dad for the first time in November, so I would say his poor wife is not having a good night tonight.
Don't think testing could have prevented this freak accident mrkjf, but I like your obvious concerns about driver safety, but it's motorsport and it will never be without risk. On the positive side, we rarely see a fatality in any motorsport now days, and safety is paramount.
Seen the photo of him on You Tube Williamsfan and the helmet does look bad as does his eye. I won't post the link as it would be in bad taste.
I wish Felipe a speedy recovery. Good luck wee man, my thoughts are with you and your family.
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All my best wishes to Massa, his family, friends and the entire motorsport world affected by this accident. I'll hope for the speediest of full recovery's.
Rom
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.....I hope Massa is OK, but I doubt even he thinks it is anything but a freak accident. In '94, I think it is generally agreed that a steering column failed, which led to the accident. The suspension broke in the impact (as it would have in most accidents of even todays F1 cars) and a piece of it killed Senna - again the chances of it happening or happening again are minute. No amount of testing could have prevented it.....
You are big on testing, but I'm not so sure it would solve very many of the problems you refer to.
yeah Scotty, but after the Senna incident one of the changes made was the height of the tub was increased to stop the remote chance of a front wheel ever striking a driver's head again.
My point is suspension components falling off the Brawn car must be investigated to find out why that happened as it is very strange and when did ya last hear of that happening? Probably human error with some procedure overlooked or not carried out properly.
Also spare a thought for poor ole ruebens, his paranoia about his team nobbling him must surely have increased exponentially
Best wishes to Felipe for a complete recovery - he was unlucky to be struck but so very lucky he was not instantly killed by the blow
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Seen the photo of him on You Tube Williamsfan and the helmet does look bad as does his eye. I won't post the link as it would be in bad taste.
Having also seen the picture, I wish I had not as I only stumbled apon it, an inch or so higher and he would have told his thoughts on it.
I thought last weeks accident to poor Henry Surtees was a freak and did not expect to see another so soon.
Lets hope for some positive news today.
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Thank God Felipe survived this freak accident. He was operated on last night and is now in an induced coma in the AEK Hospital in Budapest. The operation was successful and he is likely to be woken today. Medics say he will be out of action for 2 months, although some have hinted he may not race again this season.
The part that hit Massa has been confirmed as a rear suspension spring Barrichello’s car. It bounced down the road for four seconds and hit Massa in the head when he was travelling at about 175mph. The spring weighs about a kilogramme and Button's springs have been replaced as a precaution.
Massa was briefly knocked unconscious and his feet went onto the brake and throttle simultaneously. The car data says that Massa applied 60bar of pressure to the brake, which is the equivalent of laying his foot on it gently, while the throttle was effectively jammed on!
Get well soon Felipe.
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I hope Felipe is up and about soon and all the best to him and his family. Must have been quite an impact from both the spring striking him, and the barrier as he was continuing at high speed.
I suppose when you are travelling at that speed it is hard to make out just what is approaching you and you don't steer away from it. There is always a lot of litter that gets onto the race track but there is a big difference between a plastic bottle or piece of paper and the spring.
I was also wondering if the enclosed nature of the cockpits now may have inadvertantly made it impossible for Felippe to move his head to take the blow more on the side of his helmet. Mind you at the speed it all happened it was pretty much unavaoidable and just a freak accident that occours from time to time.
Last time I can remember a driver in F1 being struck hard on the head by an object whilst travelling at speed was Tom Pryce in South Africa, but hopefully the outcome this time will be quite different.
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I just hope the incident is investigated in the interest of safety, not penalty.
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I just hope the incident is investigated in the interest of safety, not penalty.
yes, me too Scotty
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Apparently the brain swelling has subsided and they have woken him up with no further plans to induce a coma again. They are still concerned about his left eye, but it is indeed good news.
From F1 Live:
The latest reports from the Budapest hospital AEK about the condition of recovering Ferrari driver Felipe Massa are very positive.
It is said that the Brazilian, seriously injured when flying debris struck the front of his helmet during Hungarian GP qualifying last Saturday, has been woken from his induced coma and will not be put unconscious again.
Another scan on Monday afternoon showed that the 28-year-old's brain swelling had subsided, moving the medical team to wake him up and withdraw the artificial breathing.
Massa is said to now be conscious and has spoken his first words since the crash. A full recovery is now expected, with the biggest concern now being the condition of his damaged left eye.
There were reports on Monday that Massa's optic nerve behind his left eye had been damaged to an unspecified degree.
It is however believed that his personal doctor Dino Altmann will not now push for the transfer from Hungary to Paris, given Monday afternoon's positive news indicates a far shorter hospitalisation.
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Is proper binocular vision required for F1 racing?
Certainly the cars are moving at speeds that the human eye was never intended to perceive, and the braking markers are all clearly labelled: the driver isn't relying on depth perception for braking zones.
Have there ever been drivers with impaired vision in one eye?
I know that National Hockey League players have participated without full vision in one eye. Ice hockey does move fast, even if it's not as fast as Formula One.
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Is proper binocular vision required for F1 racing?
Certainly the cars are moving at speeds that the human eye was never intended to perceive, and the braking markers are all clearly labelled: the driver isn't relying on depth perception for braking zones.
Have there ever been drivers with impaired vision in one eye?
I know that National Hockey League players have participated without full vision in one eye. Ice hockey does move fast, even if it's not as fast as Formula One.
Some of the drivers in top flight motorsport wear glasses and others contact lenses, I think Seabass is a glasses wearer, it's harder to tell who contact lens wearers are because they are less visible but I'm sure there are some. The point is vision can be corrected to some extent so this may not prevent Massa racing again and I wish him a speedy return.
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I had to see the in car several times before I saw the spring and I was looking for it. I would bet Massa never saw it. There is also some indication it hit the padding on the edge of the cockpit first and bounced into Massa. However much pressure he applied to the brakes, he left skid marks suggesting the brakes were locked just before impact.
Lonny
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I read somewhere that according to the telemetry the throttle was at 100%, while the brake pressure was about 60%. The wheels were grabbing, but still spinning in the replays I saw. I don't think he did it on purpose - it was either a spasm while he was unconcious, or he was concious and just stiffened up due to the shock and pain.
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it's harder to tell who contact lens wearers are because they are less visible but I'm sure there are some.
Jacques Villnueve definitely wears contact lenses, and he mentioned that most other contact lenses wearers never get spotted because they keep them on between sessions. I think he mentioned Rubens Barrichello as an example.
The problem comes if Felipe has damage to his eye other than near/farsightedness and astigmatism (which are primarily what contact lenses and glasses correct). The first-level problem is that if his left eye is deemed "partially sighted" (there's a lengthy explanation of what this means in Appendix L of the International Sporting Code), Felipe will be out of motorsport driving for five years while it is established whether and how the other eye compensates. The second-level is more subtle. If Felipe passes the tests, gets back in the F1 car and finds that his talent has been blunted a bit by sight damage, then he could find that he can't reach the heights he's used to. While we'd get to enjoy his talents for a while in that scenario, Felipe could get a bit frustrated, find that the frustration reduces what he can do on track (eventually being more of a block than the sight problem) and there is the risk of a negative spiral developing.
Hopefully when Felipe is in a state where a full eye examination is possible, the eye will prove to have no permanent damage and all this worrying will have been moot.
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for medical implications please goto the Pitpass.com article:
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38582 (http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=38582)
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Doesn't sound too promising unfortunately. Here's a hope and a prayer Felipe is one of the really lucky ones and recovers 100%.
Lonny
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He's to be trasferred to Brazil on Sunday, and apparently is in good spirits.
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He's to be trasferred to Brazil on Sunday, and apparently is in good spirits.
Of course he's in good spirts, he gets to see Schumacher race again! :DD
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He's to be trasferred to Brazil on Sunday, and apparently is in good spirits.
Of course he's in good spirts, he gets to see Schumacher race again! :DD
Spot on Jeri, who wouldn't be happy to see Schumi back in action! :good: :good: :good:
:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
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Me. :( >:(
Lonny
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I have to admit Schumacher's return doesn't really thrill me either, but that's because I'm worried he'll be slow enough to disappoint himself and about the lengths Ferrari is going to give him an unfair advantage.
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I have to admit Schumacher's return doesn't really thrill me either, but that's because I'm worried he'll be slow enough to disappoint himself and about the lengths Ferrari is going to give him an unfair advantage.
yeah, well said ALC, i too worry about the possibility of FERRARI's tactics being a little too grubby
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I'm glad he's back, I'm just sorry for the way it happened and I look forward to seeing Felipe racing again.