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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Dare on March 29, 2015, 08:25:16 PM

Title: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Dare on March 29, 2015, 08:25:16 PM
If Bernie is half as smart as he pretends why can't
he understand know one pays any attention to him
and we regret that after his bribery trial he still has
any say so in F1.



http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-news/f1-bernie-ecclestone-regrets-letting-manor-return?artid=175861
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 29, 2015, 08:45:40 PM
I never heard of anything as ridiculous as paying a settlement to make a criminal case go away.  :fool:
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Alianora La Canta on March 29, 2015, 09:28:31 PM
In the UK, it is extremely common. Typical reasons include:

- the prosecution realises their case is as flat as a pancake but doesn't have the grace to drop it (sometimes the settlement involves the prosecution paying the defendent compensation, especially if the judge is likely to chastise the prosecution's handling of the case)

- the defendent is guilty but very rich, and the state can't afford to say "no"

- it's not clear what state the defendent is in, but one or both sides feel the case has dragged on too long and neither side cares much about the outcome any more

- it's not clear what state the defendent is in, but there isn't enough evidence to find out and one side feels the natural collapse of a case would be to their disadvantage

- something has happened that would normally cause the case to collapse, and neither side can be bothered to go through a re-trial

- the side in the right has overextended themselves in terms of legal fees and can't afford to get justice
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Dare on March 30, 2015, 12:15:00 AM
I'd have to guess Bernie fits the


- the defendent is guilty but very rich, and the state can't afford to say "no"
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Andy B on March 30, 2015, 01:04:26 AM
Does he not have a point?
Its like all the stores on the High Street funding someone to open another store and then they do not open on a Saturday! :DntKnw:

Puts on tin hat and heads for the hills.  :crazy:
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Scott on March 30, 2015, 09:34:19 AM
No, it's not like that at all.

It would be more like if all the stores on High Street had to pay a protection racket run by Bernie, and one store didn't have enough to pay Bernie, so Bernie starts strong arming the place.

Bernie gets no trickle down from a team like Manor. 
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: cosworth151 on March 30, 2015, 12:35:57 PM
But yet here we are paying attention to some ridiculous thing that Bernie said. He's like an infant who will throw a tantrum any time he feels like he's not getting hi9s due of attention. Besides, he truly believes that the greatest tragedy on Earth is a dollar, pound, euro, yen, whatever going to someone other than him.

Quote
I never heard of anything as ridiculous as paying a settlement to make a criminal case go away.

Here in the States, that's called "Too big to fail." Wall Street criminals pull that all the time.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Alianora La Canta on March 30, 2015, 02:05:22 PM
Scott, Bernie does get trickle-down from a team like Manor. There are people watching for Manor and their ilk, and as Manor is the only one of its ilk remaining, losing it means losing those viewers.  Bernie might not care... ...until the amount he can get from TV and sponsors goes down.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Scott on March 30, 2015, 02:27:52 PM
But Bernie is like a politician...he wants the payout in the next 6 months, otherwise it's a waste of time.  Like my recently deceased 100 year old Great Uncle, Bernie probably doesn't even buy green bananas anymore (he loved that saying).   ;) ;)

What is Bernie thinking when he yanks 1/19th of their prize money from last year?  Them not running in Australia has nothing to do with last year's prize money.  He really WAS born an a$$hole.  And handing them an invoice for air shipping their stuff after he said he would foot the bill is just adding to the insult.  I honestly can't believe I am anxious for a person to die, but in his case, I really am. 

Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Alianora La Canta on March 30, 2015, 03:11:15 PM
What is Bernie thinking when he yanks 1/19th of their prize money from last year?  Them not running in Australia has nothing to do with last year's prize money... ...And handing them an invoice for air shipping their stuff after he said he would foot the bill is just adding to the insult.  I honestly can't believe I am anxious for a person to die, but in his case, I really am.

Manor could not run because they were obliged by law to remove some software at a certain point to help repay creditors, software that could not be replaced in time for qualifying. If Bernie was going to pull the money, he needed to send it to the creditors to compensate them for the consequences of Manor's absence. Same with the travel fees. The creditors would probably be able to sue for these if Manor did not receive them (and surely will if Manor misses the CVA payment this month on account of Bernie's behaviour!)

Regardless of your speculation regarding Bernie's birth, he was apparently also born not understanding contract law.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 30, 2015, 05:17:25 PM
Bernie believes, probably correctly, that contract law doesn't apply to people as wealthy as him. Your contract is only as good as your lawyers, ask the Sauber Drivers Club.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Dare on March 30, 2015, 05:50:59 PM
Scott said    .  I honestly can't believe I am anxious for a person to die, but in his case, I really am.


What a horrible thing to say Scotty and I couldn't
agree more with you.Bernie is a waste of dna.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 30, 2015, 10:00:22 PM
Bernie strikes again.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/f1-boss-bernie-ecclestone-casts-doubt-german-italian-gps?utm_source=RacingDaily20150327&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=headline-center&utm_content=body&utm_campaign=awracingdaily (http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/f1-boss-bernie-ecclestone-casts-doubt-german-italian-gps?utm_source=RacingDaily20150327&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=headline-center&utm_content=body&utm_campaign=awracingdaily)
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Jericoke on March 30, 2015, 10:25:48 PM
Bernie strikes again.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/f1-boss-bernie-ecclestone-casts-doubt-german-italian-gps?utm_source=RacingDaily20150327&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=headline-center&utm_content=body&utm_campaign=awracingdaily (http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/f1-boss-bernie-ecclestone-casts-doubt-german-italian-gps?utm_source=RacingDaily20150327&utm_medium=enewsletter&utm_term=headline-center&utm_content=body&utm_campaign=awracingdaily)

There's a lot of great quotes in there:

Quote
Hockenheim has a contract for next year.
 
"That doesn't make a difference," Ecclestone said. "A lot of people have a contract.

A lot of people in F1 are learning that the hard way.

But then there's this:

Quote
"We tried to do something with 'Schuey,' doing a recording and he would answer questions," Ecclestone said. "When you do and you have someone there asking the questions and they say, 'Yep, maybe,' then they answer, 'Could be,' and then, 'Don't know,' there's no point. In fact, it's negative and worse than saying nothing."

Maybe we don't get enough F1 news in Canada, but, since when has Schumacher been awake and conversational?!  :yahoo: It's hard to say what is 'important' news and what isn't, but surely the future of F1 in Germany is tied to Michael Schumacher's progress?!  Why is this just a bizarre footnote?
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 30, 2015, 10:36:37 PM
The future of F1 in Germany is tied to getting Bernie his money, nothing more. He drops a big hint that the government should get involved, mentioning other sporting events that are bankrolled by taxpayers.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Ian on March 30, 2015, 10:51:29 PM
But the sporting events Ecclestone's talking about aren't year after year in the same countries, he's only interested in the oil rich Middle East countries.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on March 31, 2015, 12:58:56 AM
If Angela Merkel offered Bernie 25 million tomorrow, the race would be on.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Scott on March 31, 2015, 07:42:02 AM
It's Bernie's way of getting his money back that he had to pay to stay out of jail.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Irisado on March 31, 2015, 12:53:14 PM
His behaviour is just reprehensible.  Either he does it on purpose because he enjoys playing silly little games, or he really is that unpleasant an individual.  I can't decide which.  Either way, Formula 1 has enough problems as it is without his stirring the pot.

I wish someone else who has more passion for the sport and more interest in making it more like a sport and less like a self-profit making business would take over from him.  Ecclestone's 'give me all your cash now' approach is a major reason why Formula 1 is in such poor shape.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Jericoke on March 31, 2015, 03:16:08 PM
His behaviour is just reprehensible.  Either he does it on purpose because he enjoys playing silly little games, or he really is that unpleasant an individual.  I can't decide which.  Either way, Formula 1 has enough problems as it is without his stirring the pot.

I wish someone else who has more passion for the sport and more interest in making it more like a sport and less like a self-profit making business would take over from him.  Ecclestone's 'give me all your cash now' approach is a major reason why Formula 1 is in such poor shape.

I'm going to bet that Mr Eccelstone is very charming in individual convsersation.  I've met people who I don't otherwise like, yet everytime I have a conversation with them, they strike me as the best person on the planet.

With that said, I think he is pulling the strings ever more franticly in F1 because making people dance is the best hobby he can find.  I think that anyone who enjoys making people dance is an unpleasant individual.

It is time for an individual who is more interested in growing the sport for the future, rather than someone interested in squeezing every drop from it.  The question isn't if it's time for Bernie to go, but rather who is going to replace him, and how.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on April 01, 2015, 04:46:01 AM
The Germans are not extremely passionate about F1, but if the Italian GP dies, Bernie will never be able to go to Italy again.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Jericoke on April 01, 2015, 04:30:42 PM
The Germans are not extremely passionate about F1, but if the Italian GP dies, Bernie will never be able to go to Italy again.

Mercedes made an effort to save the German GP by ponying up some cash.

Surely the moment they did that, Bernie realized how much Ferrari would pay to 'save' the Italian GP.  (Now, there would be a certain justice here, given how much F1 money Ferrari gets 'unfairly'.  If they use it to to fund the Italian GP)

If Italy is saved in this manner, I expect McLaren to be pressured to chip in for the British race.

I'm sure if Sauber had two spare Francs to rub together, Bernie would expect them to fund a Swiss GP.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Andy B on April 08, 2015, 09:49:43 AM
Mercedes offer was to pay half of the losses which would not go to Bernie directly.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Scott on April 08, 2015, 11:46:16 AM
No, but if the race was saved, or Monza is saved by Ferrari, it will be the increased race fees that would go to Bernie...or his employers.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Jericoke on April 08, 2015, 03:49:34 PM
Mercedes offer was to pay half of the losses which would not go to Bernie directly.

I'm not sure it's even about the money.  Bernie has discovered he can make one of the largest corporations in the world jump.  He just needs to figure out how high he can ask.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on April 09, 2015, 06:53:24 AM
Bernie to "save" F1.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/115040891826/ecclestone-wont-let-wolff-kill-f1 (http://www.worldcarfans.com/115040891826/ecclestone-wont-let-wolff-kill-f1)
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Scott on April 09, 2015, 09:41:16 AM
"After 50 years of work, I will not allow formula one to be destroyed out of pure selfishness."

did he just say that???   :crazy: :fool: :fool: |-( |-(
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: John S on April 09, 2015, 09:49:07 AM
Old Bernie makes I laugh, We've had one year of Merc engine dominance and a Ferrari win in the second race this year on what looks like engine power - why no death knell thoughts when Red Bull were running away with it year after year?  :crazy: 

Oh of course, silly me, Merc can't be manipulated to do Bernie's bidding in any shape or form like all the other teams on the grid.

Enough of this let's help Red Bull guff Bernie, fix other problems that are within your remit rather than seeking to get into areas that are for others to decide. You may be the paymaster, and a skinflint at that, but you ain't the rule maker so sort out your own house.  :P

Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: cosworth151 on April 09, 2015, 12:30:24 PM
Y'all know I'm not one to side with Bernie, but even a clock that has stopped is right twice a day. The hyper-priced, super fragile, nearly silent mini-motors have been a disaster to the sport. They could well be the final nail in F1's coffin.

Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Jericoke on April 09, 2015, 03:13:07 PM
Old Bernie makes I laugh, We've had one year of Merc engine dominance and a Ferrari win in the second race this year on what looks like engine power - why no death knell thoughts when Red Bull were running away with it year after year?  :crazy: 

Oh of course, silly me, Merc can't be manipulated to do Bernie's bidding in any shape or form like all the other teams on the grid.

Enough of this let's help Red Bull guff Bernie, fix other problems that are within your remit rather than seeking to get into areas that are for others to decide. You may be the paymaster, and a skinflint at that, but you ain't the rule maker so sort out your own house.  :P

Hold on a moment here

Red Bull is a 'privateer' team.  They're not owned by some megacorp, they're owned by a rich guy (who named them for his megacorp).

The concensus is that F1 needs privateers more than it needs manufacturers, so we need Red Bull more than we need Mercedes
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: John S on April 10, 2015, 09:55:22 AM


Hold on a moment here

Red Bull is a 'privateer' team.  They're not owned by some megacorp, they're owned by a rich guy (who named them for his megacorp).

The concensus is that F1 needs privateers more than it needs manufacturers, so we need Red Bull more than we need Mercedes

Red Bull are no privateer team, they're a marketing initiative just like all the other sport and stunts that Dieter backs. When F1 doesn't suit Red Bull anymore they will ditch it just as quick as the car manufacturers do.

The real privateer teams don't keep complaining about the engines they just get on and do the best with them - or they change to another. F1 has always been cyclical, what goes up must come down - sometimes with a real bump.  :D

IMHO Red Bull are a victim of their own success by sticking so closely with Renault. They wanted a sweetheart deal, they got one, so now live with it in the fallow years. That's what real privateer's have to do. 
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: cosworth151 on April 10, 2015, 11:47:22 AM
OK, Dietrich, how about this. We'll let you swap engine deals with McLaren. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to be rid of the Honda lumps.
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Jericoke on April 10, 2015, 02:59:31 PM


Hold on a moment here

Red Bull is a 'privateer' team.  They're not owned by some megacorp, they're owned by a rich guy (who named them for his megacorp).

The concensus is that F1 needs privateers more than it needs manufacturers, so we need Red Bull more than we need Mercedes

Red Bull are no privateer team, they're a marketing initiative just like all the other sport and stunts that Dieter backs. When F1 doesn't suit Red Bull anymore they will ditch it just as quick as the car manufacturers do.

The real privateer teams don't keep complaining about the engines they just get on and do the best with them - or they change to another. F1 has always been cyclical, what goes up must come down - sometimes with a real bump.  :D

IMHO Red Bull are a victim of their own success by sticking so closely with Renault. They wanted a sweetheart deal, they got one, so now live with it in the fallow years. That's what real privateer's have to do.

Just to clarify:

Manufacturers
Ferrari
Mercedes
McLaren

Privateers
Sauber
Williams

Publicity Stunt
Red Bull
Toro Rosso
Force India
Manor
Haas

Albatross
Lotus

Is that about right?  There's certainly wiggle room to move Williams into a manufacterer, and I'd concede Manor as a privateer. 
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Irisado on April 10, 2015, 11:30:04 PM
I prefer this categorisation:

Manufacturers & Marketing Brands

Ferrari
McLaren
Mercedes
Red Bull
Toro Rosso

Unclear

Force India
Lotus

Independents

Manor
Sauber
Williams

Unknown

Haas
Title: Re: Bernie the mouth is at it again
Post by: Alianora La Canta on April 17, 2015, 09:55:42 PM
I would go for the following

Paid spectacular amounts just to be there by FOM and promised a golden handshake if FOM's income falls below a certain amount:

Mercedes
Ferrari
Red Bull

Participation wage but no golden handshake

McLaren
Williams

Golden handshake but no participation wage

Toro Rosso

Reliant on own resources and prize money

Lotus
Force India

Reliant on own resources as it has no prize money

Sauber
Haas (eventually)

Reliant on prize money as it has no resources

Manor
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