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F1 News & Discussions => F1 Drivers => Topic started by: Wizzo on April 18, 2007, 12:14:26 PM

Title: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Wizzo on April 18, 2007, 12:14:26 PM
Ralf Schumacher’s contract is up for renewal at the end of this year, and with many young up-and-coming drivers eager to show their worth in motorsports elite series, maybe it is time for younger of the Schumacher siblings to stand aside and let someone else begin a career in Formula One.

Competing in his eleventh year in Formula One, Ralf has accrued six wins from 166 starts, had many a big accident and has been often outpaced by his team mates. This year alone, and only after three races, fellow Toyota driver Jarno Trulli is on four times the points. For the past two seasons though, Ralf has finished higher than Trulli, 20:15 and 45:43 for 2006 and 2005 respectively. But with confidence waning at Toyota, and with the car performing woefully for the money that is thrown at it, maybe the Japanese marque need to shake up their drivers and team personnel a little.

It is also worth noting that Ralf is one of Formula One’s top earners, only eclipsed by Kimi Raikkonen, allegedly. Of course, exact numbers are never disclosed, but it has been made clear that Ralf is a very expensive driver. Older brother Michael once made a bit of cash from appearing on a l’Oreal advert, where he muttered the famous line, “Because I’m worth it!”. Is Ralf worth it?

Probably not, in all honesty. If I were a team owner, and Alonso’s manager came to me offering his driver’s services for Ralf’s salary in return, I’d probably agree - Alonso is a double world champion and only 25 years old. If Kimi Raikkonen’s manager offered the same, I’d probably agree for similar reasons - Kimi is a real talent and proven race winner. But with only six wins under his belt, I do not understand what Ralf can contribute that other (cheaper) drivers cannot.

I also find it odd that Toyota have been very firm with their drivers in the past, but have relaxed recently with their current pairing. They launched the team with Mika Salo and Allan McNish, but rather cruely ditched both drivers after only one season in favour of ChampCar title winner Cristiano Da Matta (he won it in a Toyota-powered car) and experienced driver Olivier Panis. Cristiano left before the season ended though, and test driver Ricardo Zonta was put in place. And then Olivier Panis retired from F1 and made way for already contracted Jarno Trulli at the final two races of the year.

Trulli was obviously retained for 2005 and this was the first year that saw Ralf Schumacher join the line up. The car seemed to be improving, but it didn’t last too long and things have pretty much descended since the ‘05 high. Despite all this though, and despite Ralf’s huge accidents at Indianapolis that caused him much pain and injury, Ralf still rates himself quite highly. Speaking before the start of the 2007 season, he stated that he considers himself to be one of the top three drivers currently on the grid. I presume the other two are Alonso and Raikkonen, although the fact that he rates himself so well leads me to believe he isn’t of sound mind!

I know positive mental attitude is essential for sportsmen and sportswomen, but you must remember to keep your feet on the ground.

So anyway, Ralf will probably want to stay at Toyota, believing that the team will one day make it to the top. They are wealthy and can afford his excessive salary and ego. But will they want to? I’m not so sure, and while the two parties that have more-cash-than-sense are perfect for each other, I’m wondering if enough has finally become enough for Toyota.

There will be more options for next year with Prodrive joining the grid, and team boss Dave Richards is keen on having an experienced driver in one of his cars. Whether or not they can afford Ralf is another question, but it is a possibility should Toyota decide to ditch Schumacher Jr. Trulli is already contracted to the team for another two years (inclusive of 2007), so it really is just down to Ralf and his measured performances against his team mate this year.



Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: raindancer on June 27, 2007, 06:40:57 PM
I think Ralf will be given the boot before the end of the Season itself. The Japs can be pretty ruthless once they make up their mind and in Ralf's case they seem to have made it. They have already been discussions in Toyota for preparing a Champion rather than acquiring one and Ralf is the on his way out by all accounts.
IMHO Ralf was never really that good and has ridden his pedigree all these years. I don't think he would have lasted so long in an European Team.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Steven Roy on June 27, 2007, 07:29:26 PM
I thought Ralf was going to be something special in his early days.  His record in junior formulae was pretty good.  He went to Japan and won the F3000 championship.  It's worth comparing that with the Eddie Irvine generation who came back from Japan with big reputations but in reality their results were nothing special.

I think his time is up and Toyota should replace him for next season with somone significantly cheaper or better.  They have nothing to lose by dropping him immediately and putting Montagny or someone else in the car.  If the new driver is good they get him signed u cheaply.  If he is not they have learned something.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: cosworth151 on June 27, 2007, 09:19:59 PM
I'm surprised they didn't drop him after Indy. They had nothing to lose and could have had a French driver for Magny-Cours.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: johnbull on June 27, 2007, 10:49:21 PM
I'm surprised they didn't drop him after Indy. They had nothing to lose and could have had a French driver for Magny-Cours.
Haven't they?

I'm sure I heard or read somewhere that Frank Montagny would be in the car at Magny Cours.

Ralf went through a brilliant but very short spell, in his Williams days, but has gone steadily down hill since.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: cosworth151 on June 27, 2007, 11:05:27 PM
I just checked Toyota's team web site. They have Ralf and Jarno talking about what they expect at Mangy-Cours. It's dated the 25th. Looks like he got a reprieve.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: RedFive on June 29, 2007, 07:07:14 PM
Ralf went through a brilliant but very short spell, in his Williams days, but has gone steadily down hill since.
Did he ? I'm not so sure.
It is true that one of my favourite pastimes is Half Schumacher bashing, but even taking this into account, I don't remember this era. Unless of course you count his pairing with Zanardi, where, in my opinion, it wasn't so much Half who shone, but Zanardi who failed. As far as I'm concerned Half had his only good season in '99 at Jordan. On the back of this Williams signed him up on a long term deal, and boy must they have regretted it.
He initially showed a good turn of speed, coupled with a propensity for throwing the car at the armco. I'm pretty sure everyone thought that if he could just bring the car home (a la Colin McRae), he would succeed. But unfortunately the speed pretty much disappeared along with the crashes (well mostly the crashes...)
Having said all that though, give Half a well sorted, quick car and Half can fly. Therein, I suspect, lies his current problem. He cannot seem to adapt his style to wring the pace out of a recalcitrant car.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Chameleon on June 29, 2007, 08:23:40 PM
If I could make as much money as Ralf has purely through having the right name at the right time...

Let's face it, he was always hired on the basis that he might just be as good as his brother.  But he never was.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Steven Roy on June 29, 2007, 09:28:55 PM
There is a tradition in F1 that where brothers have raced the younger on has always been faster.  Always.  Until Ralf.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: johnbull on June 29, 2007, 09:39:21 PM
There is a tradition in F1 that where brothers have raced the younger on has always been faster. 

Remind me. My mind's gone blank. I remember Emerson and Wilson Fittipaldi but can't for the life of me remember any other brothers in F1.

Ah, Brambillas.  Winkelhock's perhaps.

My goodness Steven you've really got me thinking.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Chameleon on June 29, 2007, 10:25:36 PM
There is a tradition in F1 that where brothers have raced the younger on has always been faster.  Always.  Until Ralf.

And Ralf sure knocked that one on the head, didn't he?   Positively nailed it!  :yahoo:
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Dare on June 29, 2007, 10:37:09 PM
Teo and Corrado Fabi

David and Gary Brabham

Giles and Jacques Villeneuve SR

Jody and Ian Schecker

any others?
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Ian on June 29, 2007, 10:39:59 PM
Wallace and Gromit ?  :DD
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Steven Roy on June 29, 2007, 10:40:22 PM
I knew that comment would get me into trouble.  I read an article around the time Ralf came into F1 and it gave about 12 pairs of brothers and the younger was always much more successful.

Other than those you have mentioned I remember Jody and Ian Scheckter, JYS and Jimmy Stewart, and erm well ...

Did Jacques Villeneuve (Jacques' uncle) not race once in F1?

Pedro and Ricardo Rodriguez.

I suppose since the Indy 500 counted toward the championship for years (even though F1 teams never went near it) there must be some brothers associated with it.  I am not sure when it stopped counting but I guess Bobby and Al Unser must be on the list.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: cosworth151 on July 02, 2007, 02:24:15 PM
The Indy 500 stopped counting in 1960, before the Unsers. The Voukovich brothers would be in there, though.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Chameleon on July 02, 2007, 03:41:47 PM
Stirling Moss had a younger sister, Pat Moss (later known as Pat Moss-Carlsson after she married Erik Carlsson, the rally driver).  Pat was a very successful rally driver in her own right, although it is hard to compare her achievements with Stirling's since F1 and rallying require such different skills.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: f1box on July 02, 2007, 04:57:22 PM
I think Graham (one start -1952) and Peter (10 starts 1950-1954) Whitehead were brothers - but I may be wrong. Peter was the older of the two.

Jacques Villeneuve Snr had three DNS to his name - so never actually started a World Championship Grand Prix.

Dick and Jim Rathamn both raced the Indy 500 when it was part of the World Championships in the 50's

David
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: johnbull on July 02, 2007, 06:08:38 PM
You're really digging them out. :good:
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: Steven Roy on July 02, 2007, 08:08:30 PM
I think I read somewhere the Whiteheads were half-brothers but given how badly we are struggling I think they should count.

Did Alain and Michel Ferté ever start an F1 race?  They were very successful in F2 around the time of pre-qualifying in F1 so there is a chance that they tried to race something.
Title: Re: Ralf - Becuase he's worth it?
Post by: f1box on July 03, 2007, 11:30:02 AM
Can't find a record of either of the Ferte brothers in F1 - they were both in F2 and then F3000 and previously they had both won the French F3 Championship.

If we are resorting to 'digging them out' - thanks johnbull! - lets go back to before the term 'Grand Prix' was coined and races were city to city events:

Marcel and Louis Renault both raced from the late 1890s!
Marcel winning the 1902 Paris - Vienna race and meeting his death during the 1903 Paris - Madrid rally. The Paris-Madrid Rally being infamous for the number of deaths (drivers, mecahics and spectators) that it was stopped before it reached the Spanish border.

David
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