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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Scott on May 13, 2012, 06:28:14 PM

Title: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Scott on May 13, 2012, 06:28:14 PM
What the heck??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H9QLET_u1DA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H9QLET_u1DA)
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Ian on May 13, 2012, 06:46:31 PM
A bad ending for a great day for Williams.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18051779 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/18051779)
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: hayleylsl on May 13, 2012, 07:56:43 PM
I saw it briefly on the news earlier on and couldn't believe what i was seeing..looked nasty.

It's the second fire this year isn't it for one of the teams- didn't the lotus motor home catch alight?

Edit: just watched the video- jeeze..... that was really, really bad, I hope the mechanics are all going to be ok :-(
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 13, 2012, 08:19:47 PM
Latest I could find said 1 Williams and 1 Caterham mechanic with relatively minor burns ( still hurts like hell), and the rest were smoke inhalation, also not fun, but not permanent. There will be an in depth investigation as required by the rules.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Scott on May 13, 2012, 09:14:08 PM
Sennas car with all the fibre burnt off it....
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Ian on May 13, 2012, 09:23:05 PM
Hope he was insured.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 13, 2012, 09:41:22 PM
At least they didn't lose the good car.  :DD
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: hayleylsl on May 13, 2012, 10:34:24 PM
This will sound a bit daft but it's actually quite sad looking at the remains of Senna's car :-(

http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/gallery/12837/7754156/williams-fire-pictures (http://www1.skysports.com/formula1/gallery/12837/7754156/williams-fire-pictures)

Picture 15 illustrated it very well
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 14, 2012, 01:56:17 AM
Nice find. I would like to know why it took so long for an actual fire truck to arrive. I also think it points up a need for respirators to be available with the other fire equipment. That smoke was nasty.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Alianora La Canta on May 14, 2012, 11:51:37 AM
Good questions both. The thing is that the fire extinguishers that put out the fire came from the standard garage suppliers. Respirators are not normally needed when working on cars. By the time the circuit fire engines turned up, there was little left to do and most of the damage (to people and equipment) was done.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: cosworth151 on May 14, 2012, 12:44:42 PM
I wonder if the track fire team goes off duty after the race is over.

This sounds like at least one of the Williams crew was very seriously injured. Best wishes for a quick and complete recovery to all of those who were hurt.

http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8467381 (http://wwos.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8467381)
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 15, 2012, 05:33:08 AM
According to a Williams press release as quoted by James Allen, one Williams employee was burned, though it doesn't say how badly, it does say he is in good spirits and well enough to be transferred back to the UK in the next 48 hours.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/05/one-williams-team-member-still-in-hospital-with-burns-after-pit-fire/ (http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2012/05/one-williams-team-member-still-in-hospital-with-burns-after-pit-fire/)
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Jericoke on May 15, 2012, 02:53:58 PM
Surely the FIA can mandate state of art fire suppression systems be installed in all pit facilities.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 16, 2012, 04:58:47 AM
Obviously there are a lot of things to look at here. But Major Props to all the members of the various crews who jumped in and gave it their all.  :good: :good: :good:
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: John S on May 16, 2012, 11:35:09 AM

It struck me that in the days of refueling during the races the teams seemed to have some of the crew wearing breathing masks of some sort. If this had happenned at that time I guess more crew members up and down the pit lane would have been used to wearing respirators and put them on to tackle this blaze.

Full marks to all the teams for pulling together and responding en masse.  :good: whilst it is bad that some injuries occurred it could have been a whole lot worse. With fires at Lotus and now Williams it seems the danger in F1 has switched this year from on track to the pitlane and the hospitality area.

 
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Scott on May 16, 2012, 10:29:43 PM
Surely the FIA can mandate state of art fire suppression systems be installed in all pit facilities.

Might dent Bernie's take if the tracks have to provide the equipment...better Bernie have portable systems taken to each race.  Then they would be at the same standard at every race.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 16, 2012, 11:28:37 PM
Most likely Bernie will obtain the equipment and require that the tracks lease it from him.  ;)
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Jericoke on May 17, 2012, 03:12:31 PM
Most likely Bernie will obtain the equipment and require that the tracks lease it from him.  ;)

With that kind of logic... I have to wonder what Bernie was doing with that match in the Williams garage...
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: cosworth151 on May 17, 2012, 04:02:25 PM
Well, it was Rosberg's car that got the worst of it. Let's see, was there anybody who was really mad at Nico after the race? Maybe an older German fellow?  ;)
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 18, 2012, 01:49:59 AM
I thought Senna's car was the crispy critter? :confused:
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: John S on May 18, 2012, 08:29:30 AM

And I thought Nico left Williams a couple of years ago.  :tease: 

Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: John S on May 18, 2012, 09:23:28 AM

Whilst there is no official word on what happened in the Williams pit garage James Allen hints that the fuel bowser and KERS in the garage may be linked to the conflagration. The flashover type flames seen at the start of the fire also suggests petrol, or maybe just fuel vapour, being involved at an early stage.

There is no precise word yet as to what caused the fire, but it appears it occurred while the team was emptying the fuel bowser in the back of the garage. There had been suggestions from other team sources that KERS could have been involved but nothing has been confirmed. Williams and the local emergency services are working together to establish the cause.

Senior figures from two teams said that a fresh look at safety procedures would likely follow this incident.

McLaren’s Jonathan Neale said that existing F1 team health and safety procedures involve a full report being filed on the garage set up at every Grand Prix and a list of how hazardous materials are stored. There is a comprehensive book on how to store fuel, for example, and an incident of this kind hasn’t been seen in Formula 1.

But safety is taken very seriously by teams and the FIA and both sides are likely sit to down via the mechanism of the Sporting Working Group, which oversees operational activities, to review safety measures.

Jamesallenonf1.com, Sunday 13th May.

Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Ian on May 18, 2012, 10:03:58 AM
Hehe, don't mock Cos, he's just having an oldish moment.  :P
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: cosworth151 on May 18, 2012, 12:55:22 PM
Hey now, Ian! I've had years of experience being old!  :P
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: vintly on May 23, 2012, 04:04:23 PM
From a New Scientist blog:

KERS comes under the microscope after F1 blaze
15:45 14 May 2012
New Scientist
Paul Marks, senior technology correspondent

The world of motor racing may have to re-examine its electrical safety rules if it turns out the powerful regenerative batteries of Formula 1's Kinetic Energy Recovery System (KERS) were implicated in a pit lane fire at the Barcelona Grand Prix yesterday.

Bruno Senna's Williams car was withdrawn from the race after it was involved in a collision with Michael Schumacher's Mercedes on the thirteenth lap. After the race, which Williams driver Pastor Maldonado won, Williams' pit lane engineers were 'defuelling' Senna's damaged vehicle by decanting fuel into bowser tanks when a fierce fire broke out. Thirty-one people needed medical treatment after the blaze, with seven of them suffering from minor injuries and smoke inhalation.

While fire services and the FIA, the sport's governing body, are investigating the cause, attention is focusing on whether a short circuit from the KERS battery that sits beneath the fuel tank caused the fire. This battery stores 400 kilojoules of electrical energy (harvested from regenerative braking) that can be dumped into electric motors that provide a speed boost for 6.6 seconds every lap. As a result, KERS has seriously boosted F1's watchability

But the power of the battery has caused problems before, notably in 2008 when a BMW Sauber engineer received a shock from the KERS shorting to the bodywork. So F1 engineers, who have to deal with the system on a day-to-day basis, will be hanging on the results of the Barcelona investigation - not least because, anecdotally at least, KERS is already said to be unpopular and risky.

How safe the high power KERS system is in fuel-stuffed garages matters a great deal. In the 2013/2014 F1 season, F1 plans to boost the KERS energy storage ten times to 4 megajoules to give more speed boosting chances as engine sizes drop from 2.4 litres to a greener 1.6 litres.

This will also allow a controversial new trick: ensuring that the cars only move silently under battery power when in the pitlane in a bid to improve the "road-relevance" of F1 to the development of hybrid street cars. The Barcelona fire investigation may help determine if that greener image is worth the risk of a more powerful KERS.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: Scott on May 23, 2012, 05:25:24 PM
Fuel + electricity = disaster.  There are even signs at your friendly neighbourhood gas station on that one. 

Dump KERS.  DRS is working more effectively anyhow.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: John S on May 23, 2012, 08:27:04 PM

If they dump KERS it will probably improve DRS, at some circuits it's possible to keep a defensive line round most of the lap without using KERS and then unleash it all in one go to defend against the DRS of the car following. Add in that a following car degrades it's tyres quicker and you first get stalemate, then the following car is unable to stay with the car infront; just like Kimi catching but unable to pass Vettel in Bahrain. Maybe it's time to rethink KERS.  :DntKnw:



Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: John S on May 23, 2012, 08:35:57 PM

Seems that static elctricity is now in the frame, rather than KERS, for the Williams blaze.  :o

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/17241-Static%20electricity%20may%20have%20caused%20Williams%20fire.html (http://www.onestopstrategy.com/dailyf1news/nieuw/article/17241-Static%20electricity%20may%20have%20caused%20Williams%20fire.html)

Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: F1fanaticBD on May 24, 2012, 11:00:31 AM
Incidents are very rare, and they will help us to improve, that does not mean we have to dump the KERS. It is a new and very promising technology that needs to harnessed and requires a few more run-downs. It has not spiced up the races yet, I agree, but I am sure people will agree that they have shown promises.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: peterhodge877 on June 11, 2012, 05:41:54 PM
Newest I could come across replied 1 Williams and additionally 1 Caterham technician with relatively minor burns ( nevertheless hurts like hell), and also the rest happened to be smoke inhalation, also not fun, yet not permanent. Online is going to be some kind of in depth investigation as necessary by the regulations.
Title: Re: Williams Victory Party goes up in smoke
Post by: cosworth151 on June 11, 2012, 07:30:18 PM
Good to hear. It could have been much, much worse.

Welcome aboard, Peter. Glad to have you here!
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