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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: cosworth151 on May 22, 2015, 07:52:57 PM

Title: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: cosworth151 on May 22, 2015, 07:52:57 PM
The Grand Prix Drivers Association has put up a survey for fans to voice our opinions of what's right and wrong with the sport. Here's our chance to tell them what we've been saying to one another all along!

http://gpda.motorsport.com/
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Jericoke on May 22, 2015, 09:52:02 PM
Thanks!

Seems pretty detailed to me.

They ask about 'watching F1 with friends'.  While I don't get to the chat as often as I'd like, does that count as watching with friends?  (I count you guys as friends!)
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: cosworth151 on May 22, 2015, 10:16:26 PM
I certainly counted it that way!  :yahoo:
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: F1fanaticBD on May 23, 2015, 05:52:16 AM
I certainly counted it that way!  :yahoo:

I second that  :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

The survey itself is pretty detailed and does cover many aspect of F1 many of the problems that its facing.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 23, 2015, 08:40:20 AM
Too long and not the right questions.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Steve A. on May 23, 2015, 12:42:53 PM
Some of the questions seem a bit irrelevant,  and it is a bit long, especially doing it on your mobile. Having said that I've done it, might be one of the few times fans are asked anything.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: cosworth151 on May 23, 2015, 12:56:14 PM
I was struck by how many of the questions dealt with topics we discussed at length right here. Some of them could have been better phrased. For example, the question about venues. I wish they would have asked about circuits and not just countries. for example, voting for the U.S. & Japan could be taken as voting for Austin & Fuji when I meant Indy & Suzuka.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Alianora La Canta on May 25, 2015, 05:12:10 PM
I'll answer this when the GPDA server lets me.

There's also a F1 Racing survey (http://surveys.haymarket.com/s3/GFC-survey-2015), which I have managed to answer (http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com/post/119453667255/f1racingsurvey). "No more than 10 minutes", it said... ...took me 7 hours!
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 25, 2015, 08:10:39 PM
Excellent blog as always Alia. I think the question on European races was meant to see if you favored preserving the traditional GPs and venues.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Scott on May 27, 2015, 07:23:47 PM
(you guys know this survey was put together by FOM, right?  Bernie thinks it will be better received by doing it through the GPDA)

I wish more of the questions had an option of 'I don't share any of the opinions listed above' 

For example.  I don't like the SC rules, but they should not be changed to reflect any of those choices. 

The SC should be on the track to protect the safety of the stranded drivers or personnel who happen to be on track in a dangerous position.  That is not how they currently use the SC in my opinion.

9. What is your opinion about the current use of the Safety Car? *This question is required.
The current Safety Car rules are fine and should not be changed
I don't like the Safety Car periods but understand why they can be needed
I don't think the Safety Car should be used as it penalizes the Race Leader
I think the Safety Car should be used more frequently to help bunch up the field
I don't really have an opinion
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Irisado on May 29, 2015, 04:54:25 PM
There's no option to add comments then?  That's a pity, because I would like to add quite a few of my own comments, in addition to answering their questions.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 29, 2015, 05:16:30 PM
Multiple choice surveys nearly always have the questions chosen and worded to produce a predetermined result. This one is no exception.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Alianora La Canta on May 30, 2015, 09:11:16 PM
There's no option to add comments then?  That's a pity, because I would like to add quite a few of my own comments, in addition to answering their questions.

The F1 Racing one has a 250-word section where you can add whatever technical/sporting regulation changes you think need doing. I needed a continuation sheet ;)

Edit: still haven't managed to get the GPDA survey to load. Argh!

Excellent blog as always Alia. I think the question on European races was meant to see if you favored preserving the traditional GPs and venues.

Thank you for the explanation. I'd say yes, cautiously. For me, it's the quality of the venue that is most important, rather than where it is located. So a good non-European track would be better than a bad European one (so I prefer Interlagos to Hockenheim) and a good European track is better than a bad non-European track (so I prefer the Red Bull Ring to Sakhir). It happens that at the moment the majority of good F1 circuits are in Europe, but that could change.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: cosworth151 on July 01, 2015, 10:09:11 PM
The results have been posted:

http://www.grandprix247.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/2015-GPDA-Survey-EXEC-SUMMARY.pdf
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: F1fanaticBD on July 03, 2015, 05:21:43 AM
Isn't it the general perception about F1 with numbers. The stake holders are aware of pretty well. but I wonder will it ever reach to their brain to consider let alone implementation.

The TV viewer loosing due to move pay channel is alarming to say the least, and I am surprised to see Kimi on top
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Scott on July 03, 2015, 12:51:28 PM
Me too...Kimi the most popular driver in F1?  Sorry to break your bubble Lewis.

Sadly lacking from the questions were anything to do with revenue distribution or at least keeping it in the sport and not letting it get sucked out.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Alianora La Canta on July 03, 2015, 01:11:18 PM
I think the GPDA thought that went into "too much commercialism". Probably not a fair assumption, but I can sort of see it - if people have a vague sense that too many people are in it for the money and not the fun, any entity that is there only for the money, and taking money out accordingly, is bound to be implicitly included in the criticism.

I still want to know how the stratified sample worked...
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Jericoke on July 03, 2015, 03:03:06 PM
Isn't it the general perception about F1 with numbers. The stake holders are aware of pretty well. but I wonder will it ever reach to their brain to consider let alone implementation.

The TV viewer loosing due to move pay channel is alarming to say the least, and I am surprised to see Kimi on top

I'm not.  Lotus was still selling Kimi branded merchandise at the Canadian GP.

The only driver support I saw in any large amount were for Kimi, Vettel and Hamilton
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Jericoke on July 03, 2015, 03:05:18 PM
Me too...Kimi the most popular driver in F1?  Sorry to break your bubble Lewis.

Sadly lacking from the questions were anything to do with revenue distribution or at least keeping it in the sport and not letting it get sucked out.

The fans shouldn't have to worry about the economics of the sport, nor should the GPDA.

All we want is value for our money.  Where the money goes after we pay it shouldn't matter.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: cosworth151 on July 03, 2015, 04:39:52 PM
One of the oldest sayings in racing:

Speed is money. How fast do you want to spend?

I don't want to have to worry about the money in F1. When good teams & great venues are leaving the sport for lack of money, while a few people are making Midas money off of it, I have to worry about it.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Steve A. on July 03, 2015, 07:04:58 PM
The survey said that 70% of fans wanted refuelling,  today the team bosses decided not to reintroduce refueling. I think the survey was a bit irrelevant but it looks like it was pointless.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: J.Clark on July 03, 2015, 08:45:09 PM
The results are indeed interesting; however, noting that some of you who took the survey have indicated there was no place for additional comments, and not seeing any of the issues many of us discuss in forums, it seems a bit of pat on the back thing for the GPDA.

It does not appear from from the posted results that there was much asked about how to make it better.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Steve A. on July 03, 2015, 10:26:39 PM
I received an email after filling out the survey survey, I made my comments then on the lack of relevant questions and lack of opportunity to make comments of any sort. I do doubt it was read, or even seen.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Scott on July 04, 2015, 06:42:53 AM
I received an email after filling out the survey survey, I made my comments then on the lack of relevant questions and lack of opportunity to make comments of any sort. I do doubt it was read, or even seen.

Ditto
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Irisado on July 06, 2015, 11:09:06 AM
The survey said that 70% of fans wanted refuelling,  today the team bosses decided not to reintroduce refueling. I think the survey was a bit irrelevant but it looks like it was pointless.

Which calls into question the historical knowledge of some of the people who responded in my view.  Refuelling didn't 'spice up the show' in any way.  All it did do was create overtaking in the pits, which was not very inspiring.  It's not something that should return.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: cosworth151 on July 06, 2015, 12:41:19 PM
I've followed F1 for over 50 years & I think refueling added to race. It not only added to the strategy aspect of the race, we didn't have the first part of the race run with overweight cars waddling around like overfed geese.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Scott on July 06, 2015, 01:46:25 PM
Refuelling gave us cars with a variety of weights on the same lap, which added to on track action at least as much as DRS does.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: J.Clark on July 06, 2015, 03:38:16 PM
I too am a fan of refueling.  It played heavily in the strategy side of things for many races.

It allowed for someone to run light, or heavy in qualifying (having to start with the fuel in the car) and have an impact on finishing position, especially when added to tire management.

F1, unlike some other motorsports, has had nearly no injuries due to refueling - none that I can recall in my more than 60 years of following it.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Jericoke on July 06, 2015, 04:29:18 PM
I too am a fan of refueling.  It played heavily in the strategy side of things for many races.

It allowed for someone to run light, or heavy in qualifying (having to start with the fuel in the car) and have an impact on finishing position, especially when added to tire management.

F1, unlike some other motorsports, has had nearly no injuries due to refueling - none that I can recall in my more than 60 years of following it.

Everyone wants the drivers to be more responsible for the race, but putting refueling strategy in the mix turns the race results back to the pit walls, not the cockpit.  (I don't have a problem with races being decided from the pitwall, just pointing out the contradiction)

F1 doesn't have to wait for a serious injury before deciding something is dangerous.  Being lucky isn't a valid safety strategy.  I agree that they're very good at keeping fueling safe, and there's room to make it safer, and that risk is an inherent part of the sport. 

Personally, I'd let the GPDA decide which risks they're willing to take.  If the drivers want refueling, then yes. If they don't, then no.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Scott on July 06, 2015, 09:43:57 PM
I don't want the drivers to be more responsible for the race, in fact I would prefer if plenty of control was handed back to the pit wall.  I want the driver less distracted by the tech of the car and more concentrated on taking that wonderful tech to and sometimes over the limit.  Making them do math while driving the cars at speed is not why I watch F1.  I want them to manage their steering and pedal input into the car and leave the rest to the teams.  An F1 driver should be about raw skill and talent, not academics.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Steve A. on July 06, 2015, 11:26:12 PM
The survey said that 70% of fans wanted refuelling,  today the team bosses decided not to reintroduce refueling. I think the survey was a bit irrelevant but it looks like it was pointless.

Which calls into question the historical knowledge of some of the people who responded in my view.  Refuelling didn't 'spice up the show' in any way.  All it did do was create overtaking in the pits, which was not very inspiring.  It's not something that should return.

Maybe it's not a problem with historical knowledge,  some may or may not be aware of the amount of overtaking,  yet still prefer refuelling to return.  It did allow passing, maybe not on track, but passing none the less. I would prefer that to the Mercedes procession that we currently have, Brit GP excepted.
I agree it is up to the drivers,  after all they are the ones sitting on the car while it all goes on. But as has already been said historically there have been no serious incidents.
I remain firmly in the bring it back camp.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 07, 2015, 02:43:26 AM
What made F1's system more dangerous was that it was pressurized to load the fuel faster. Indy car used a similar system until they had a couple of very scary moments, then they changed to a gravity fed one. Allowing gravity fed refueling would add quite a strategy choice: start light and make a very long pit stop or start heavy and make the 3 second variety. 
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Jericoke on July 07, 2015, 03:03:56 PM
I don't want the drivers to be more responsible for the race, in fact I would prefer if plenty of control was handed back to the pit wall.  I want the driver less distracted by the tech of the car and more concentrated on taking that wonderful tech to and sometimes over the limit.  Making them do math while driving the cars at speed is not why I watch F1.  I want them to manage their steering and pedal input into the car and leave the rest to the teams.  An F1 driver should be about raw skill and talent, not academics.

If passing is done by pit wall strategy then that nullifies the driver talent, doesn't it? 
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: cosworth151 on July 07, 2015, 03:32:43 PM
The same thing could be said about car differences. How many WDC's would Schumi or Vettel have if they spent their career at a team like Minardi or Manor? If we want it to be strictly about driver talent, we need a spec racer series.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Steve A. on July 07, 2015, 03:59:49 PM
F1 is a team sport, I accept that the driver cannot do it all, he needs to drive the car. I would prefer any option to adjust the car from the pitwall removed.
The cars and fuel should allow for all out racing, the driver should not have to worry about calculating fuel. Bring refueling back, let the pitwall work out when he needs to come in, any adjustments should be made during a pit stop, safety excepted.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Scott on July 07, 2015, 04:38:36 PM
Quote
If passing is done by pit wall strategy then that nullifies the driver talent, doesn't it?
You can have both, can't you?  Surely a talented driver can take a car managed by the pit wall and make a decent pass.  But on the other hand if a good call by the pit wall helps a driver get in a position to overtake, it's only win-win in my opinion.

F1 is a team sport, I accept that the driver cannot do it all, he needs to drive the car. I would prefer any option to adjust the car from the pitwall removed.
The cars and fuel should allow for all out racing, the driver should not have to worry about calculating fuel. Bring refueling back, let the pitwall work out when he needs to come in, any adjustments should be made during a pit stop, safety excepted.

When I said control, I don't mean remote control.  What I mean is hand back the ability for the team to advise the driver based on the telemetry they are reading.  The driver still has final say if he wants to use the setting the team is suggesting.  I want the team to be able to tell the driver to change a setting and exactly what setting he should change it to, not just tell the driver that his brakes are overheating or he is using too much fuel.  I don't want the driver making mental calculations beyond apex angle and throttle control.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Jericoke on July 07, 2015, 08:05:53 PM
F1 is a team sport, I accept that the driver cannot do it all, he needs to drive the car. I would prefer any option to adjust the car from the pitwall removed.
The cars and fuel should allow for all out racing, the driver should not have to worry about calculating fuel. Bring refueling back, let the pitwall work out when he needs to come in, any adjustments should be made during a pit stop, safety excepted.

I agree that F1 is a team sport, and I think that of all motorsports (aside series that have an actual team in the cars), it is the one where the team makes the biggest difference.  I am okay with that.  If races are won and lost by the right call on fuel, that's fine.

However, since 'the fans' want more reliance on the driver, refueling puts the reliance back on the team.

I think that the sport would be more exciting if the driver was 100% responsible for everything on race day.

I also think the sport would be more exciting if the teams were given another tool for determining strategy.

Trying to find a middle ground (i.e., relying on the drivers to do more and giving the pits more power) isn't going to make things better.

They need to decide if the sport is an individual sport, or a team sport, and then set the rules, marketing and strategy to match that.  Quite honestly, I don't think they could go wrong either way.  The danger would be trying to be both.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Alianora La Canta on July 07, 2015, 09:26:14 PM
It' difficult to justify not doing something on "it will reduce overtaking" when it seems there's virtually no overtaking at most races already. There's no point defending DRS passes unless it's your team-mate or your name is Nico Hulkenberg - it just slows you down and the inevitable happens anyway - so the DRS passes tend to be more like "car behind let through by car in front" moves. Plus it reduces the tendency to try anything else, since overtaking in a non-DRS zone in anything other than a massively superior car simlpy leads to freebie DRS pass by the other car and a net gain to that car in terms of remaining resource.

I'd estimate that Silverstone apart, the number of genuine overtakes in the other races this year has been 3. Refuelling-era races usually managed more than 3 overtakes, hence would be an improvement.

Fortunately for the anti-refuelling brigade, there are better reasons to oppose the sort of refuelling F1 wanted. Primarily safety-related.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 08, 2015, 02:05:05 AM
Honestly, I don't think the driver should adjust anything except roll/sway bars and brake bias. The car should run the race without needing to adjust the fuel flow or timing or driving style. Give them enough fuel to race, send them off and let the pit wall boys twiddle their thumbs for an hour and a half.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: Jericoke on July 08, 2015, 03:09:19 PM
Honestly, I don't think the driver should adjust anything except roll/sway bars and brake bias. The car should run the race without needing to adjust the fuel flow or timing or driving style. Give them enough fuel to race, send them off and let the pit wall boys twiddle their thumbs for an hour and a half.

Would be  a great way to keep costs down too:  they could mandate a fixed number of personnel in the pit area.

I disagree about driving style though.  Obviously as the cars burn off fuel (until F1 switches to batteries) and the tires wear it will change how the cars handle, and how the drivers handle them.  Some will specialize in building an early lead, some will specialize in late phase overtakes.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: cosworth151 on July 08, 2015, 03:44:27 PM
Sounds like GP3.
Title: Re: The GPDA Wants YOUR Opinion of F1!
Post by: cosworth151 on July 30, 2015, 12:07:52 PM
Here are the full results:

http://www.racer.com/f1/item/119725-full-f1-fan-survey-results-revealed
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