GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Andy B on March 15, 2010, 08:38:34 AM
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After sleeping on this I have decided that if this race was what the season is to be it is going to be a quite uninteresting.
All the effort into making the cars run closer to aid overtaking has dissapeared and there is little overtaking unless someone makes a mistake.
Rosberg could not even get past Vettell with a wounded car.
Something needs to change but I do not know what. :DntKnw:
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I agree Andy, I am really worried based on yesterday about the state of F1 in 2010. The new teams are going to take a while to gain reliability and performance which doesn't exactly make for great viewing. But more frightening is how dull the racing was. Cars seemed unable to follow each other and I thought that was supposed to have gone with the removal of all the aero devices. Having top-heavy cars certainly will never help things. Added to that, seeing them all lap what was it, 6 seconds behind qualifying times, is just wrong. These cars should be going flat out all the time, not having to be nursed home as was the case yesterday.
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The tyres were also too good I expected to see them sliding around because they had gone off but if they were not forced into using the two types they could have gone the whole race on a single set.
This just gives ammunition to the "its boring" brigade. :(
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You three have said it all. I made a cup of coffee, came back and it was the same, went into garden for a smoke, came back, just the same, and to think we've looked forward to this for months.
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Quick fix, an old idea but as we've already regressed to no refuelling why not tell back markers don't have to let the front runners pass! They can bunch the field up and hopefully increase chances of overtaking for the short term.
The only way they will stop this dullness is by somehow allowing teams to develop cars that are able to run in clean air but then can be altered to run in dirty air when out on track. The front wing is not the answer on its own, we need movable devices really. Never happen though as it costs too much and is ungovernable.
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:-*I couldn't agree more. What a boring race and for the third year, I have bought tickets to see a race. What a stupid idea to make everyone drive on full tanks. Part of the challenge of F1 is to psyche the other teams out by going low on fuel at the right time. I cannot believe that Bernie has done this and expects us to watch without complaining. Poor show, I'm afraid. Guess I'm too late to get a refund.
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I'm holding out hope that the first race was just a matter of everyone playing it safe, seeing how the new rules and regulations play out.
Now that everyone knows how it feels, they'll start playing with strategy, and learning where to take risks. I have a feeling there is more to come from the mind of Brawn, and the hands of Schumacher.
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I'm holding out hope that the first race was just a matter of everyone playing it safe, seeing how the new rules and regulations play out.
Now that everyone knows how it feels, they'll start playing with strategy, and learning where to take risks. I have a feeling there is more to come from the mind of Brawn, and the hands of Schumacher.
yeah, me too Jeri; it will be fascinating to see how the managers and the drivers learn the ropes
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I agree with just about all the comments here. My excitement and anticipation for the first race of the season was rewarded with a dull and uneventful race. To make matters worse the cars were lapping slower than ever and boy, didn't it show?
In my office I have a 'mixed bag' of sporting fans but it always amazes me how even the ones who don't follow F1 always manage to watch some of the race and have an opinion on it. I have never seen them all agree on a race - until this morning.
Bahrain probably had one of the highest viewing figures for F1 for a long time, mainly due to the fact that it was the first race of the season added to the welcome return of Mr Schumacher. So what did the world see? The most boring spectacle F1 has put on in years.
What has happened to F1? My only saving grace is to tell myself that things can only get better. This is still all new to the teams and you can practice until you are blue in the face but this will never simulate full race conditions. Lets hope the teams/drivers/organisers were all as surprised as us by the lack of events and are now making plans to rectify the problem.
Despite many people saying to me 'I won't bother watching the next one', I of course will be there, as will many of you. Lets just all keep our fingers crossed that the 2010 F1 season does not finish how it started.
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I think (or to be more accurate, I hope) that the problems relate to it being the first race under these regulations, a terrible track and un-tested high temperatures.
Lotus and Virgin proved it is possible to overtake. Hamilton and Alonso (who was completely disregarding team instructions) proved it was possible to drive fast.
The teams now have a better understanding of what the tyres will do, so we now we need a track where fuel consumption isn't such a worry and perhaps we will actually get some racing.
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Well put Wizzo. I am definitely not writing off the regulations yet but based on the first race you cannot be too excited about what is to come. I'm sure by the Friday of the Melbourne GP I'll be back to being full of excitement though. Just I hope the teams can come to an agreement on making more of a spectacle, maybe by adding more pitstops as has been suggesting or by pushing Bridgestone into making 'worse' tyres that degrade quickly and cause drivers to have to alter their styles and perhaps make mistakes leading to more overtaking and fighting on track.
Bring on Australia and hopefully a better second Grand Prix. However I think for many the swords will be out if that race is as dull as Bahrain.
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I know part of it was the boring track. Melbourne is much better. This does make the case for having the first race of the season at a good track. Still, the overweight, full fuel cars will be with us all season. Like you, Wizzo, I will continue to watch and hope for better.
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To show how predictable this race was look at
how many people had all 8 drivers correct in
the GG.That surely wasn't the case last year.
I agree the Bahrain track made for a boring race
but I'm afraid with Tilke we have more not less
boring races in store for us.I too will be there for
Australia with high hopes.
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Bridgestone could make tyres that are competative and give more grip but with less durability this means those running on old rubber will be hunted down by those on fresh.
I believe Nigel did just that once by accident he had a new set because of a puncture.
Now theres a thought issure the marshals with "Stingers"!!!! >:D
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Bridgestone could make tyres that are competative and give more grip but with less durability this means those running on old rubber will be hunted down by those on fresh.
I believe Nigel did just that once by accident he had a new set because of a puncture.
Now theres a thought issure the marshals with "Stingers"!!!! >:D
A great idea, and the reason why Bridgestone wants out. How can they possibly enhance their reputation by designing a tire to degrade? There's a million great ideas for tire, but I don't see how an established rubber company could get behind any of them.
For my crazy tire suggestions:
- Force teams to use 3 compounds, not two. More strategy, more stops, more variety.
- Force teams to start their drivers on opposite tires. This will certainly be trickier with the 'start on your Q3 tires', but maybe this would superced that rule. It'll make it pretty clear who teams think their B driver is.
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Ok, if refuelling is gone due to safety, make every car stop for 2 10second stop-and-go's at each race...only thing is they can choose whenever they are to take place (but no tire changing allowed). It's more than a bit artificial, but something's got to get things going. Either that, or only make tire compounds last 20 laps or so (I think someone's already mentioned something like that).
Seriously, I hope everyone (Bernie, FIA, Teams) figure out that this has to change and they only have a race or two to do it.
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Definitely a dull race, it's hard work watching race cars laden with fuel driving round with drivers concerned with conserving their tyres, engines and gearboxes. This is not what F1 should be all about, but unfortunately this is what it is becoming. The rule makers are trying to make the sport run with smaller budgets, wrong IMO. I know with potential lower budgets it attracts new blood to the sport, but at what cost to the sport. I would rather watch 16cars light as possible racing flat out and burning out 3 or 4 sets of tyres per race, than watch 24 on a economy run. It won't stop me watching F1 as it would seem I am genetically programed to watch it no matter what. :DntKnw:
PS Didn't Ferrari do well? :yahoo:
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If hard core F1 fans like us found the race dull, I sure many new or casual fans just tuned out.
Autosport has an article where Fry, Horner & Whitmarsh all call for change.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82162 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82162)
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If hard core F1 fans like us found the race dull, I sure many new or casual fans just tuned out.
Autosport has an article where Fry, Horner & Whitmarsh all call for change.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82162 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/82162)
Sounds like a bunch of solicitors to me!
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Well, I got through 1/3 of my Jenson Button book that I've been meaning to read since Christmas... ...but I don't think that was the intention of the new regulations.
However, I think the lack of imagination from the strategists and the ridiculous new circuit design were responsible for the problems in the race, so I don't think mandatory pit stops will help. There needs to be more options for flexibility and overtaking, not fewer.
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IMO the only real shot term awnser is through the tyres and the choices of pit stops for teams. If they bring in 2 mandatory stops the teams will simply cover each other, so stalemate again. The answer I think is for one set of a much stickier short lived super super soft tyre to be available as well as the 2 other choices, it should be green striped just like the normal soft so no one will know when they are deploying it.
There is no need to use the super sticky set, but they are there should teams choose to gamble on them. the teams would still need to use the other 2 compounds so gamblers must make at least 2 stops.
Come on- lets see just how fast an F1 car can lap. :yahoo:
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Yup...boring (sorry about that!)
Mandatory pit stops? It's been already said..if everyone has to do it, then its just "even steven"
Tires that degredate after 20 or so laps? No way one manufacturer would agree to that, let alone the mess if another one steps up to enter the fray.
Fueling and the resulting weight differential have, to me, obviously shown that that was the primary reason for position changes and exiting lap times and on-track battles.
So if they wanna put skirts on (no offence ladies!) to safen up the sport (right, like going 200mph isn't dangerous you can't figure out how to put fuel in a car?) I would propose these EASY ways to try and bring some ecitement to future races because if you ask me, its gonna be one long parade for the rest of the year under this current system:
1 - Take a page out of North American racing on tire stops..4 men only over the wall to change tires. 2 to do the actual work, and the other two as mere tire jockies. Tire changers would have to switch sides. Get down and dirty!
2 - Fer gosh sakes, bring back fueling, but instead of trying to stuff 1000 litles of fuel into a tank in x number of seconds, use a standard fuel rig that us chumps have to use!
3 - Automatic disqualification if a car is let go early during a fueling stop. I think we would not see any more crew members bowled over if that were the case.
just my uninformed 2 cents
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1 - Take a page out of North American racing on tire stops..4 men only over the wall to change tires. 2 to do the actual work, and the other two as mere tire jockies. Tire changers would have to switch sides. Get down and dirty!
2 - Fer gosh sakes, bring back fueling, but instead of trying to stuff 1000 litles of fuel into a tank in x number of seconds, use a standard fuel rig that us chumps have to use!
3 - Automatic disqualification if a car is let go early during a fueling stop. I think we would not see any more crew members bowled over if that were the case.
just my uninformed 2 cents
1 - I like the idea of a limited pit crew. That would cut costs in terms of safety equipment and insurance.
2 - I don't mind the non-refueling. The problem I have is that the engine designs are frozen from an era of refueling. Why not open the engines back up, and let them choose between power and efficiency when designing them?
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2 - I don't mind the non-refueling. The problem I have is that the engine designs are frozen from an era of refueling. Why not open the engines back up, and let them choose between power and efficiency when designing them?
The only problem I see there is that inevitably (you know engineers!) you are going to have engines producing about the same amount of power, give or take a few horsepower. I still think the combination of tire wear combined with a possible 40-60 kg (or whatever) difference in weight between race cars will make for more exciting racing situations in the long run.
I also like the idea of backmarkers not getting blue flagged. They're still in the race and if you're so fast, go ahead and pass...when you can! If they block outside the governing rules, then black flag them.
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1 - I like the idea of a limited pit crew. That would cut costs in terms of safety equipment and insurance. {Jericoke - 2 comments ago}
It may interest you to know that in qualifying, the pit crew is already limited to four (it didn't make it into the regulations, but Force India tweeted that this change had come in during the pre-season testing, so at least with that regulation there was notice!)
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IMO the only real shot term awnser is through the tyres and the choices of pit stops for teams. If they bring in 2 mandatory stops the teams will simply cover each other, so stalemate again. The answer I think is for one set of a much stickier short lived super super soft tyre to be available as well as the 2 other choices, it should be green striped just like the normal soft so no one will know when they are deploying it.
There is no need to use the super sticky set, but they are there should teams choose to gamble on them. the teams would still need to use the other 2 compounds so gamblers must make at least 2 stops.
Come on- lets see just how fast an F1 car can lap. :yahoo:
How about removing the stripe entirely? Sure, after a couple of laps it's obvious which tire a team is using, but for quali, and off the start, you don't know. As a fan, I don't know that the sport is better for knowing the team's strategy.
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As a fan, I don't know that the sport is better for knowing the team's strategy.
Couldn't agree more! Bad enough we now know everyone has to start on a full tank of fuel! There's just no suprises anymore.
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Everyone talks how great and exciting last years
racing was but I think it was more the fact that
different cars performed better I different tracks.Even
Toyota won a pole.
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It really has nothing to do with tires or refueling or any of that. Many years ago, if you pitted at all you lost any hope of winning, and there were plenty of exciting races. It's power and aero. Too little power and too much aero. All diffusers should be banned. They cause the turbulence that prevent the cars from following too closely. Front wings should be reduced so the loss of downforce behind another car is lessened. And lets crank up the power. If you can light up the tires any time you stomp the gas the drivers will have to drive, not just be foot to the floor all the time. Watch a Rolex Grand-Am race, they have severely limited aero and though they could also use more power, the cars slip and slide around, use all kinds of strategy and pass each other. F1 drivers are spoiled by too much grip and the only possible way to reduce that is less downforce and/or more power.
Lonny