GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: cosworth151 on April 04, 2018, 09:09:55 PM
-
The Grand Prix of Bahrain has been with us since the 2004 season. The 5.412 km Sakir circuit hasn't really changed since the beginning. There will be 57 laps for a total distance of 308.238 km. Pedro de la Rosa set the lap record of 1:31.447 in 2005.
The race was cancelled in 2011 due to uprisings in the kingdom.
Schumi won the 1st race there. It was his only race in Sakir. Probably the best race there was the 2014 shoot-out between Mercedes team mates Lewis Hamilton & Nico Rosberg. Knowing how things work, you might have to go to YouTube to watch the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahqKLbczdoM&feature=player_embedded
-
Sorry to go "slightly" off topic, but did I read something about a fire in recent news?
I may have to Google some more ... now that it's in my mind!
All the best,
Cal :)
-
FP2 just ended. Kimi P1 with Vettel right behind. Then Hamilton, Bottas, Max & Danny Ric. The Mercs are about .5 sec behind the Ferraris and the Red Bulls are about .5 sec back of the Mercs.
-
FP2 just ended. Kimi P1 with Vettel right behind. Then Hamilton, Bottas, Max & Danny Ric. The Mercs are about .5 sec behind the Ferraris and the Red Bulls are about .5 sec back of the Mercs.
Just curious if Spoiler Alerts are exercised here on GPW?
Or should I simply use common sense and avoid the forum during race weekends?
All the best,
Cal :)
-
FP2 just ended. Kimi P1 with Vettel right behind. Then Hamilton, Bottas, Max & Danny Ric. The Mercs are about .5 sec behind the Ferraris and the Red Bulls are about .5 sec back of the Mercs.
Just curious if Spoiler Alerts are exercised here on GPW?
Or should I simply use common sense and avoid the forum during race weekends?
All the best,
Cal :)
If you're not watching the races/quali/practises live, and want to watch them later, then this is definitely a no go zone. But honestly, if you can make the effort to watch the race while in live chat, I highly recommend it. Turns a dull race into a grand time.
-
Thanks for the feedback Jericoke!
Yes, I typically watch F1 races when it's convenient on my end (so it's never a 'live event' based on time zone constraints ... and to the point where when I am able to lock myself in 'man cave' for the duration of 3 hours, away from the trials and tribulations of life).
All the best,
Cal :)
-
Bahrain would be perfect to chat Cal...8am Sunday...can’t imagine a quieter time in a house. We don’t generally start populating the chat more than 5 or 10 minutes before the race though, so it would look deserted if you show up for the pre-race show. Give it a whirl if you have time...you might find you make time for it more often.
-
Sorry, Cal. I'll be more careful in future. It's just the way we've always done it.
I second the invite to the Chat Room. It's always fun to watch a race with a (Chat) room full of F1 friends.
Speaking of which, I'll be absent again due to some ongoing Internet issues here. I'll be back just as soon as I can.
-
I think I get to see the first 40min or so and then I have an important date...22nd Anniversary. 8) 8) 8)
-
Well now that Q is over, that should make for an interesting race having MV race from 15th and Hammy from 9th.
Max said he suddenly got 150hp on the turn exit and that caused his spin. Two ways to take that.
1. Yes Max, that's what happens when you push the throttle to the floor while the back wheels are still on the white line
or
2. The FIA should have a peek at why the RBR can suddenly and unexpectedly find 150hp.
It was a pleasant surprise to find Ch4 broadcasting it live...I thought they didn't get any races this year. Do they get any others, or did I misunderstand and Sky has exclusive rights starting 2019, not 2018? I hope when Sky does take the whole show that they pull in the Ch4 team and ditch people like Herbert who mix up a McLaren with a Merc. ;)
Why does Toto always sit in the garage? I'm sure the mechanics would prefer the Toto and Niki show wasn't in their way during the race. Even RBR who has the Christian and Marko show doesn't require them to sit together to watch the race (though it was telling that Max had already debriefed Marko during 3rd Q and at the end of Q he hadn't even spoken to Horner). Why doesn't Toto sit on the pit wall like the other team bosses?
Poor Susie Wolff had a fashion barf that looked like she put her shirt on through one of the sleeves, and even then it was upside down. :crazy: :crazy:
Sorry for the Mclarens...Eric was sweating from more than the heat I think since it is beginning to look like perhaps the problems weren't only the engine over the past couple of years.
Wonderful to see Gasly up there, and I feel sorry that the Haas boys weren't able to put their cars in better position for the race.
The one chance I had to show that the fastest car should get the pole points and Lewis blows it for me. Since I didn't hear that Lewis had a penalty until I started to watch Q, I didn't have a chance to change my pick. Mind you, I probably would have given it to Kimi, so no big deal.
-
Scott, Channel 4 still get races this year, it is from next year that the Sky monopoly takes place.
-
That's fantastic. I thought it started this year already. :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:
-
If things don't improve we might see Alonso at Indy in May.
Maybe Honda should have been badmouthing Mclaren
-
Sorry, Cal. I'll be more careful in future. It's just the way we've always done it.
Hey Cos! *wave smiley*
No issue whatsoever, I am just trying to feel out how things are exercised here on GPZ, so please don't think I was complaining in any way. Spoilers are a HUGE deal on many of the sport forums I frequent, so I am just trying to understand how it sits with members within this community. I may even be guilty of a "mild spoiler" once in a while myself, so it's important to know the approach, so I don't upset anyone with my actions in future!
Best Regards,
Cal :)
-
Here you go Scott.
http://www.channel4.com/4viewers/editors-blog/formula-1-2018-season-confirmed-on-channel-4
-
Gonna have trouble on chat today, virgin have enlarged their small picture so I'll either have to really shrink the chat box or cut off some of the picture.
-
ESPN showed the race advert-free today. sadly, they cut away just after the podium interviews.
Spoiler Alert:
2. The FIA should have a peek at why the RBR can suddenly and unexpectedly find 150hp.
It's easy if you build an engine that only last 3 laps.
-
ESPN showed the race advert-free today. sadly, they cut away just after the podium interviews.
Spoiler Alert:
2. The FIA should have a peek at why the RBR can suddenly and unexpectedly find 150hp.
It's easy if you build an engine that only last 3 laps.
Or if you turn a high tech race car over to a teenager
-
According to Max, his engine's software went haywire. Now that could mean a lot of things as these Power Units do not run anywhere near capacity, but since the electric part of the hybrid generates about 150 BHP, I suspect that for whatever reason his battery dumped all its power too soon in the corner and overpowered the rear tires.
-
Still skeptical...Max is famous for the blame game, whether it was another driver, or some technical unidentifiable gremlin. Certainly never him. I thought I saw his rear wheels on the white line or kerb when his drift into spin started. I would put it on driver error until there is proof. His race was spoiled by himself. It's one thing to be fast and daring, but another to know when to hold back and make sure you finish the race. He doesn't seem to get the latter. Lewis does.
-
Race comments...
As for the result, although it didn't line up with my picks, I'm pleased Vettel made those tires last and was able to fend off Bottas. Doesn't do much for Bottas' reputation. He (and Merc) had to have known that he would need at least a few laps to pass Vettel once he was in DRS range - Vettel is not a pushover and knows exactly where to put his car and when to brake to muck up the next DRS zone for a following car. It seemed like Merc was holding Bottas back probably 10 laps too late, maybe to see if they could use him to help Lewis get by? I don't know, but if they had sent Bottas on a charge sooner, it might have even prompted Ferrari to bail on the one stop strategy and settle for 3rd by sending Vettel out on new tires with Bottas breathing down his neck at say the 45th lap. That said, the Medium tires didn't seem to have the performance of the Softs, even if they had longer life.
It was funny when Hammy's radio was acting up and at one point his engineer said he could only hear wind noise and Coulthard chimed in that he understood him perfectly well. Maybe Merc should look at the headphone brand that Ch4 is using. And I guess the 1:34 target time turned out to be a bit too conservative. I suspect Lewis is pretty much finished listening to Merc and their race strategies. Watch for him to take things into his own hands in future races and have his engineers pleading with him to do something different.
Fantastic finish for Gasly and STR (and of course HONDA!). RBR is probably entering into talks with Honda for the big team now. The mechanics at STR were thrilled beyond belief...fantastic job, with a perfect drive.
Although Grosjean struggled, it was nice to see a Haas in 5th place, and getting both Mclarens in the points was an accomplishment after a roller coaster race for both of them.
The Ferrari pit incident was horrific and could have been much much worse. I hope the mechanic (two broken bones in his leg) makes a complete recovery. Two notes - when they were having trouble with the tire, the mechanic, the one holding the new tire to be put on, actually made a step IN towards the car and put him and his leg in a very dangerous position. I don't know if he did that to signal the guy on the lights that there was a problem (still super dangerous) or if he just lost a bit of balance while holding the wheel. 2nd - Kimi's reaction. Obviously it wasn't Kimi's fault as he is only looking at one thing when he is waiting to accelerate, and the light did turn green. But when he got out of the car and slowly realised one of the mechanics was injured, he COULD have headed over to the mechanic and at least shown a bit of interest rather than just turning his head and storming through the garage. I realise he couldn't have helped at that moment, but even to approach and show some concern would have given us some impression of compassion. Too bad. Ferrari has been fined for the incident. I find that bizarre when a mechanic is hospitalised for a very serious safety failure, a team gets fined, which means nothing in the grand scheme, yet when a tire is cross threaded or something that doesn't even cause an injury, they end up with grid penalties. Both are unsafe releases, but why is the one that put someone in the hospital treated so lightly? Applause to the Ferrari team personnel who ran to the aid of theirs and ignored Kimi's selfishness.
-
My grid picks were akin to Williams own form. Almost in a different formula/competition they were so off the mark :o
The race was a good one, quite exciting with plenty of on track action. Thankfully the Ferrari mechanic has had successful surgery after the accident and I hope he makes a full recovery. Kimi's reaction was disappointing but I guess he is paid to be focused only on racing hard. I would have preferred to see him check on his team though as opposed to throwing a strop straight away. The Ferrari's certainly seem more competitive than I expected though and their use of strategy really seems to negate any speed Mercedes have.
Bottas I believe has now shown his level. He can win races, but he lacks that little bit of cutting edge to really be a genuine contender. I guess Hamilton won't complain though about being partnered by him. Have Mercedes created another Diva or are their strategies a little off?
Red Bull had a shocker which is a shame as I wanted to see Ricciardo in the mix. Verstappen was a little unlucky I'd say, the opportunity to make a move was definitely there but he does all too often create his own downfall.
The STR Honda looked very impressive and Gasly's performance surely has McLaren scratching their heads a little. A lesser quality driver, a smaller team yet they scored Honda's best result in this hybrid era.
The less said about Williams the better. It is embarrassing, so much optimism hiring established F1 engineers and this is the result. Thank goodness the race was better this weekend or else I would have had to turn to drinking!
-
Scott as Ferrari's unsafe pit release didn't put a car on the actual racetrack, Kimi stopped it in the pit lane thus avoiding any danger to other competitors, a grid drop does not apply. .
The grid penalties come if the car is not stopped safely at soonest opportunity when problem is realised. Haas was not given grid penalties at Aus GP.
Had Kimi made it onto the track another issue of mixed tyre set would have been a probable further infringement to attract penalty, which would almost certainly include a grid drop.
-
Thanks for the explanation John. However to me there is still something wrong with the way unsafe releases are punished.
The light system that was supposed to prevent so many of these unsafe releases does not seem to be working at all anymore. It's as if the green light is switched on automatically when the rear jack releases. With 2.4 second pit stops, there is simply no time to properly assess if everything is ok with the car and the team is out of the way.
-
With all the technology and sensors around modern sport surely there has to be a better way of ensuring a car is released safely. If not maybe they need to be more old fashioned and and have mechanics having to push the car past a certain point following a pit stop....that way they're surely all at the back of the car before it launches?
-
With all the technology and sensors around modern sport surely there has to be a better way of ensuring a car is released safely. If not maybe they need to be more old fashioned and and have mechanics having to push the car past a certain point following a pit stop....that way they're surely all at the back of the car before it launches?
That’s a great idea. I’m all for slowing down the pit stops anyway...I would prefer them to have more impact on the race. I liked refueling because the pit stops took longer and the weight differentials gave more variables for strategies. Not to mention that the tire changers had plenty of time to do their job safely while the car was refueled.
-
Why not make all pit stops take a mandatory 5 seconds. No one
would gain a advantage and the pit crew would be safer.
-
Why not make all pit stops take a mandatory 5 seconds. No one
would gain a advantage and the pit crew would be safer.
There are plenty of ways to make pit stops safe, though if safety is the key element, then why not ban pit stops entirely? Pirelli (or any other supplier) could easily make F1 tires that last race distance with minimum degradation.
I like the idea of pitstops and tire strategies, but moving things entirely into the hands of drivers will clean up a lot of elements of the sport. The VSC drama: gone. Unsafe releases: gone. Drivers limping around to protect their tires: gone. Paying mechanics to train them like a drill team: gone. "Leaders" who are in first place because they are out of pit sequence: gone (anyone turning on the race should be able to understand the driver in first place is REALLY in first place.)
-
Why not make all pit stops take a mandatory 5 seconds. No one
would gain a advantage and the pit crew would be safer.
Might not have helped in this scenario though, if the wheel was still stuck after 5 seconds then the mechanic may still have been in the way when the green light came on.
-
Why not make all pit stops take a mandatory 5 seconds. No one
would gain a advantage and the pit crew would be safer.
There are plenty of ways to make pit stops safe, though if safety is the key element, then why not ban pit stops entirely? Pirelli (or any other supplier) could easily make F1 tires that last race distance with minimum degradation.
I like the idea of pitstops and tire strategies, but moving things entirely into the hands of drivers will clean up a lot of elements of the sport. The VSC drama: gone. Unsafe releases: gone. Drivers limping around to protect their tires: gone. Paying mechanics to train them like a drill team: gone. "Leaders" who are in first place because they are out of pit sequence: gone (anyone turning on the race should be able to understand the driver in first place is REALLY in first place.)
Personally I like pitstops and I also wish refuelling was back in the mix - all adds to the strategy battle. The fact that Vettel had to make a choice added to the drama and ending of this race - if the tires just last and last then no choice to be made.
-
If I understood them on the Sky feed, the Ferrari system checks to see if all 4 lugs are tight. They were on Kimi's car because the left rear had never been loosened. In Kimi's defense, he might not have know that the crewman had been injured. All I heard on his radio was "Stop, stop, stop." He seemed to be looking down as he walked back. I'd like to see them bring back the old lolly pop man, someone actually looking at the car.
I'm very happy about K-Mag getting 5th. Of course, if Grosjean would have let him by he might have been 4th.
One of the biggest surprises is the WDC standings. Alonso is 4th! K-Mag is 9th, one place ahead of Max. :yahoo:
-
If I understood them on the Sky feed, the Ferrari system checks to see if all 4 lugs are tight. They were on Kimi's car because the left rear had never been loosened. In Kimi's defense, he might not have know that the crewman had been injured. All I heard on his radio was "Stop, stop, stop." He seemed to be looking down as he walked back. I'd like to see them bring back the old lolly pop man, someone actually looking at the car.
The Channel 4 post-DNF interview seemed to indicate Kimi had no idea why the Ferrari staff were looking away from his car at that point, and hadn't lingered at the scene because, whatever it was, he wouldn't have been any help in that situation. I did see him briefly look in the direction of the gaggle of Ferrari mechanics before going into the pits, but he may still have been in "race mode" (they can't help me, I can't help them to help me, OK, next...)
I would have hoped the press officer appraised him of the reason as soon as practicable (note that they're not always allowed to delay the "media pen" interviews long enough to do this before they happen).
The idea I like is from Andrew McLaren (not a McLaren pit crew member...), who said the automated system should be banned and everyone be required to check manually that each corner is ready before releasing cars. Which is pretty much what cos said ;)
-
Perhaps they shouldn't have got rid of the guy with the stop banner in front of the drivers face, he can see everything and the driver can't move until it's lifted, problem solved, technology's not the be all and end all solution.
-
I do miss the lollipop guys, it added a little to the drama of a pitstop. I personally think it was just one of those freak incidents but obviously we want to negate any potential for injury even if it is not possible due to the nature of the sport. The one thing I don't want is to remove any pitstops. F1 tried the no tyre changes and that experiment didn't work. I would like to see refuelling back for the reasons Scott mentioned. More variables create more strategies and more interesting races, even if maybe it makes it harder to follow for the new audience that Liberty media are trying to entice in.
-
I think part of the solution is obvious; there are too many people in the pitlane. How about limiting it to one mechanic per wheel. I think F1 is the only series that allows unlimited crew members to work on the car during a pitstop. And why did the rear jackman drop the car? He should have seen there was a problem on the left rear.
-
Hi folks!
Just getting "back online" after an action packed Bahrain GP.
So, you have pretty much covered everything above, as I am a bit late to the party.
However, my own personal view on the Ferrari pit stop incident is ... technology is essentially a good thing, but when it goes wrong, the outcome can be catastrophic. In this circumstance, I would vote for a return of the Lollypop, where every mechanic around the car MUST raise a hand when their procedure is complete. Even a bright green/orange glove could "visually" help? ... just my thoughts on this folks.
Yes, pit stops are about 100ths of a second, but safety must come first for everyone involved.
All the best,
Cal :)
-
This was an improvement on the Australian Grand Prix, but that wouldn't have been an overly difficult task. There was some genuine racing and a reasonably tense finish, all of which made this race at least resemble something akin to Formula 1 that I know and love. I'm still struggling so much to come to terms with the appearance and speed of the cars though.
There were some very surprising results. I'm impressed that Gasly's Toro Rosso Honda was able to sustain that level of pace and finish the race. This was a very impressive performance. It was also a very good race for Magnussen and Ericsson, both of whom drove very well to collect valuable points for Haas and Sauber. The points are especially vital for Sauber, given how difficult it is likely to be for them to score consistently this year, and for Ericsson himself, given his new team mate is highly rated and the Swede hadn't scored any points for fifty races.
Max Verstappen, by contrast, really is not covering himself in glory at the moment. His qualifying accident was entirely his mistake in my opinion, while his brush with Hamilton in the race was caused by him being too aggressive, and not for the first time either. He still has quite a bit of maturing to do in my opinion.
Williams had a very poor weekend by their standards. I'm trying to think when it was a Williams had previously started from last position on pure pace alone (i.e. not because of a penalty of any kind). I certainly can't remember such a situation arisigin for William since some time in the 1980s perhaps. I'll have to see if I can find the answer. It's not as though they were overly slow, but with this year's field spread being so small, being off the pace in the midfield means ending up at the back of the grid.
Finally, regarding this whole question of pit stops my view is that they need to stop relying on electronics to release the drivers. Ferrari have previously had a lot of problems with their automated system in particular, so I am surprised that they continue to rely on it so heavily. In addition, some kind of minimum pit stop time would seem sensible to me. Either way, the FIA needs to make some kind of change to the rules, otherwise in the never ending quest to find more time, mechanics will continue to be under so much pressure to turn around the cars in less than three or four seconds that mistakes like this will continue to happen and injuries, such as the one sustained by the Ferrari mechanic, are likely to occur again.
-
Finally, regarding this whole question of pit stops my view is that they need to stop relying on electronics to release the drivers. Ferrari have previously had a lot of problems with their automated system in particular, so I am surprised that they continue to rely on it so heavily. In addition, some kind of minimum pit stop time would seem sensible to me. Either way, the FIA needs to make some kind of change to the rules, otherwise in the never ending quest to find more time, mechanics will continue to be under so much pressure to turn around the cars in less than three or four seconds that mistakes like this will continue to happen and injuries, such as the one sustained by the Ferrari mechanic, are likely to occur again.
While I agree something must be done about pitstops, forcing them to be longer will change the way strategy works. right now, you take 2 20 second stops, and hope to gain 20 seconds on track over someone who takes one 20 second stop. If you take 2 23 second stops, you need to gain 23 seconds. If teams could find an extra 3 seconds per race, they already would, so pit stop strategy will become far more homogenized, with far more under/over cut attempts.
I agree that we need to remove dangerous pit stops, but in terms of spectacle, the only solution I see is removing pitstops entirely, or making tires that degrade even quicker.
While I appreciate the ballet of a perfect stop, and enjoy the strategic element of when to bring drivers in... tracks and teams can save a good amount of money not having to setup pitlanes for quick tire changes. Not to mention not shipping dozens of tires per car per weekend.
Of course, wet weather tires throws a wrench (or spanner if you prefer) into that idea. However, if the cars are forced to pull into the garage for a 30 second stop, at least all of them have to do it.
-
I agree that we need to remove dangerous pit stops, but in terms of spectacle, the only solution I see is removing pitstops entirely, or making tires that degrade even quicker.
Personally, I think they have messed around with the tyre life enough in the last few years. Pirelli were asked to change the compounds/surfaces for more dramatic action, then the complaints came in about "hitting the cliff" ... and since then, they have been revised so many times, where right now, the balance of tyre life seems about right.
Myself, I would welcome the return of refuelling, but it would have to be a far better system than that damn heavy rig that never connected/disconnected properly (and Massa taking it on tour down the pit lane).
All the best,
Cal :)
-
I think part of the solution is obvious; there are too many people in the pitlane. How about limiting it to one mechanic per wheel. I think F1 is the only series that allows unlimited crew members to work on the car during a pitstop.
F1 has a crew limit (of 23); it's just over twice the amount any other series allows (I think the next-largest amount allowed "over the wall" in any motorsport series is 12, for IMSA and Indycars). Which still doesn't explain why the limit isn't 12...
-
I think part of the solution is obvious; there are too many people in the pitlane. How about limiting it to one mechanic per wheel. I think F1 is the only series that allows unlimited crew members to work on the car during a pitstop.
F1 has a crew limit (of 23); it's just over twice the amount any other series allows (I think the next-largest amount allowed "over the wall" in any motorsport series is 12, for IMSA and Indycars). Which still doesn't explain why the limit isn't 12...
I feel the real "Wow factor" of F1 pit stops would be lost by lowering the headcount or imposing minimum times.
This really comes down to the choice by the teams to allow computer decisions, which are clearly milliseconds faster than human, to run their release lights.
To ensure safety the FIA must mandate human rather than algorithm gives release command. We will hardly notice the difference - Wow factor retained with fewer unsafe releases.
-
Wow = 2-3 seconds of blur. Nobody can see what is taking place unless they focus on one corner of the car, and even then there are 4-5 people in front of any action. Only the replays end up showing us what happens.
I would rather see it go back to the 5-6 second range, in the interests of safety, strategy and to make it interesting to watch.
-
According to Max, his engine's software went haywire. Now that could mean a lot of things as these Power Units do not run anywhere near capacity, but since the electric part of the hybrid generates about 150 BHP, I suspect that for whatever reason his battery dumped all its power too soon in the corner and overpowered the rear tires.
It could also have jumped gear when it clouted over the kerb. That could feel like an extra 150 bhp, whether the data supports that or not. Also, if the engine software mapping is designed to treat the engine differently to boost power at low revs (entirely permissible with current regulations), then the stats would probably reflect a 150 bhp boost in reality.
So this theory would be modern racing car design working against itself because of bad driving. A story that, with variations, could have been repeated by at least two previous generations of racing driver (the tendency dates back to when F1 cars became more than "merely faster" than the cars in junior series). I would not expect Max to be talking about the car changing gear over a kerb if his engineers were more prepared to emphasise an increase in bhp that they don't usually see (because they are accustomed to tidier drivers whose errors don't have such big knock-on consequences).