GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Andy B on March 16, 2012, 06:15:21 AM
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I have been thinking this even before the season testing started and was surprised he got the drive but how long will it last? He even made a basic error in first practice and chucked it into the gravel then asked what happened to the car!!
His days have to be numbered!!
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I voted to say he will keep his seat but for one reason only. Ferrari will just keep him second fiddle to Fernando and replace him at the end when other "better" drivers are out of contracts.
Ju
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I agree with Ju, the better drivers are under contract so choice is limited for a mid season switch. However the main reason Ferrari will see out the season with Felipe is their experience of using substitute drivers in 2009, the resulting loss of points pushed them back to 4th in the construtors when 3rd was easily acheivable.
A lot of cash is involved in that loss of place. Which brings me to the second reason Massa will stay the course, money, - or rather the shortage of it now to pay off Felipe whilst finishing lower than they could have in the table. So for me Felipe's seat is safe this year.
The only circumstance that I can see for an early bath for Massa is a move of Perez from Sauber to Maranello. I'm not sure Sergio's backers will be comfortable with that, this is still only his second season and he still needs time in the relative comfort of mid pack to hone his skills.
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Massa will but will HRT?13 seconds off pace
What top driver would go to Ferrari?Surely they know
Alonso isn't allowed to be bested
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I would not be surprised if Ferd has a veto over his team mate. With the trouble McLaren has had with running 2 top drivers, I think Ferrari is happy to have a "b" in the 2 spot.
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The car looks really bad so that maybe a savour for him althougth with there reserve and test driver list I still feel he could be out by mid-season especially if the car comes good and he does not perform. :DntKnw:
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After that qualifying if Ferd could only get 12th place i think Massa is safe with 16th.....for now
Ju
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I reserved my vote until now. I reckon there's a fair chance he won't last the season. Sad as it makes me, where are the glory days now Felipe?
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In the sad shape the F2012 is in, I reckon they are looking for useful feedback more than anything else at this point. If Massa can help point the development in the right direction, I reckon he's safe.
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I guess he is quite safe for a while, problem with him is, if you give him a good car, he is a good drive, almost won the 2008 world championship, so keeping him with the team only helps, while a new driver will take time to settle down, which will result in losing points, as there is testing ban.
Every hot head wants to bang him, Lewis last year, Maldonado this year, no matter where ever he goes, he will have to live with it. Sometimes i feel like there is rumour or superstition that if you bang Massa you become a better driver. As Lewis showed us banging Massa could make your drive and girlfriend come back at you. Maldonado might be trying his luck as well... :DD :DD
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I guess he is quite safe for a while, problem with him is, if you give him a good car, he is a good drive, almost won the 2008 world championship, so keeping him with the team only helps, while a new driver will take time to settle down, which will result in losing points, as there is testing ban.
I disagree that with a good car he is a good driver. In 2008 what competition was there? Kimi was bored because he had won it, The Kovaleinen was in Lewis's pocket, the Red Bulls weren't up to speed and no-one else was competitive enough. He had one main rival.....and he lost to him. Another reason why I don't rate Lewis that highly. If there is such a thing, an easy championship (which he nearly lost)
Ju
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Of course, for Ju, Ferrari's drivers are Fernando and...... Not Fernando!! :DD
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I think he will be out by the end of the season- he makes to many mistakes and just isn't up there with the top drivers- I reckon he will be bought out of his contract- as to who will replace him im not quite sure- I reckon (i am very self-opinionated i know) that Perez has a good chance- i would have loved to have seen Kubica in a Ferrari seat just to see what he could do- i guess that wont happen though now.
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Of course, for Ju, Ferrari's drivers are Fernando and...... Not Fernando!! :DD
Of course :D hehe
Ju
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I believe Felipe is safe for 2012 provided he doesn't do anything spectacularly dumb (such as calling the car a "truck" without other team members doing so first). The impression I get is that Pérez is being lined up for his seat in 2013, pretty much regardless of what Felipe does, but that moving him mid-season would derail his development and possibly also Ferrari's (not to mention make long-time ally Peter Sauber upset). So Felipe should get to the end of the season with Ferrari - and not a meter further.
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From www.autosport.com:
Felipe Massa gets new Ferrari chassis for Malaysian Grand Prix
By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, March 21st 2012, 09:19 GMT
Felipe Massa will be given a new chassis for this weekend's Malaysian Grand Prix as his Ferrari team bids to get to the bottom of his troubles in Australia.
The Brazilian had a disappointing weekend in Melbourne - being comprehensively outqualified by team-mate Fernando Alonso and enduring an incident-filled race before his retirement.
Although the team continues to have faith that Massa can turn his situation around, the outfit has elected to change his chassis with immediate effect – so for this weekend in Sepang he will race with chassis number 294 - to see if it was a factor in his performance.
A statement on the team's website said: "This choice was taken to clear up any doubts about the unusual performance of his car during the weekend at Albert Park."
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From www.autosport.com:
Felipe Massa gets new Ferrari chassis for Malaysian Grand Prix
By Jonathan Noble Wednesday, March 21st 2012, 09:19 GMT
Felipe Massa will be given a new chassis for this weekend's Malaysian Grand Prix as his Ferrari team bids to get to the bottom of his troubles in Australia.
The Brazilian had a disappointing weekend in Melbourne - being comprehensively outqualified by team-mate Fernando Alonso and enduring an incident-filled race before his retirement.
Although the team continues to have faith that Massa can turn his situation around, the outfit has elected to change his chassis with immediate effect – so for this weekend in Sepang he will race with chassis number 294 - to see if it was a factor in his performance.
A statement on the team's website said: "This choice was taken to clear up any doubts about the unusual performance of his car during the weekend at Albert Park."
Well, a chassis change worked wonders for Vettel in 2010.
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Massa gets some new parts for his car to Malaysia...Yes, it is disappointment that his race finished too early. Rumours say that he may be replaced from Ferrari in the middle of season but this was only his first race this year.
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Massa gets some new parts for his car to Malaysia...Yes, it is disappointment that his race finished too early. Rumours say that he may be replaced from Ferrari in the middle of season but this was only his first race this year.
The question is, who would replace him?
Would Ferrari poach from the midfield like they did with Fisichella from FIF1?
Would a driver ahead of Ferrari in the standings be willing to swap 'down' to a Ferrari?
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Ferrari could poach either Sauber driver and I'm sure a cash settlement would buy Glock who might be perfect.
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Kobi in a Ferrari? Not sure how that would play with the Tifosi
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Ferrari's problems are more deep rooted. There's no guarantee that Massa's replacement would do any better. I think there's more chance of Massa upping his game, at least enough to convince Luca that swapping him would be too much of a gamble. Besides, they can't very well attract a good driver until they have a good car, surely the technical development is more important than crossing their fingers with a new second driver?
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Even the Italian press are speculating on Perez moving to the second Ferrari seat as he is one of the Ferrari Young Drivers as well as driving for a Ferrari engined team.
Remember you heard it here first!!
Massa will be gone by mid-season.
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When Fisi drove for Ferrari he basically replaced Schumi ,remember
he was slotted to be the replacement driver.I think the car was such
a piece of crap that MS's neck injury appeared giving Fisi[A Italian]
a chance of a lifetime
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I think the difference here is that although the car is rubbish Massa is nowhere near Alonso, 5th and 16th.
The race will tell but I'll be surprised if he responds.
It seems he has not fully recovered from his 2009 accident which is not a surprise it was a lot to come back from.
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Will Alonso want Perez in the other car? Unlikely but he won't care as long as he gets full focus. The problem is that massa has been woeful since his return and Ferrari need a quality number 2 to have any chance of picking up points in the constructors fight.
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I think the difference here is that although the car is rubbish Massa is nowhere near Alonso, 5th and 16th.
The race will tell but I'll be surprised if he responds.
It seems he has not fully recovered from his 2009 accident which is not a surprise it was a lot to come back from.
It is tough, some drivers come back from accidents stronger than ever (Lauda, Kubica from his F1 shunt)
I think that Massa's problem is one of confidence. We see the same problem with Hamilton. The entire field didn't suddenly gain on these two: they've lost whatever edge made them special drivers in 2008. I hope they can both get it back.
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I'm not sure you can include Hamilton in this Jeri as he is on the pace or there abouts and won three races last season. This is not the case with Massa he is not on the pace and has not been for a while. I doubt Ferrari will give him too much time if he does not come up with the goods soon. :good:
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I don't think today will help Felipe's case for continued employment at Ferrari much...
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"Olá!, Rubens! Do any other of those IRL teams need a driver?"
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He'll be out by China...
Perez did a fantastic job and will replace him in the next week i reckon :-) I dont think Alonso will be to happy about it but it might spur him on even more and make for a really exciting season :-)
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I'm sorry to have to say it but I also now think Felipe has lost all his confidence, a great shame as I liked Felipe.
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I don't think todays race was fair to judge him. It was a bit of a crazy time out there, with half the top runners finishing in the back. Could just have easily happened to Alonso.
For the record, NO, I am not getting soft on Massa, I just think Ferrari needs to work on their car and technical department (you see how long it took them to sort out a tent?? Send those boys back to engineering school) and do their driver changes in the off season.
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I found the tent (Gazebo according to Brundle- it was a tent though!) thing most amusing :-)
I guess i have never really rated Massa as a great driver- but i guess he is steady and has masses of experience- mind you so has Alonso. It's quite sad really as Massa was never the same after his massive accident a few years back.
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I don't think Indycar is too impressed with Reubens today either. Didn't exactly blow 'em away.
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I still don't understand why Massa ever made it from his testing role at Ferrari into the race seat and the fact he's lasted this long is a miracle.
He drove erratically/dangerously for Sauber and then got picked up by Ferrari and I still don't see what potential they saw in him. He did 'OK' in 2008. He had a good car and a team mate (Kimi) who had lost interest. He didn't drive like a champion once. he only won from pole to flag so his talent was in his qualifying that season...not his racing.
I agree that Ferrari won't drop him during the season as it disrupted them so much when they did it in 2009 but it's his last season at Maranello for sure!
Roll on Perez ;)
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Come on ross, Felipe had Michael beat more than once at Ferrari, and I'm a Schumacher fan.
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Ferrari should have hired Fisichella when they had a decent car,Massa
couldn't touch him at Sauber
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If Massa does not perform and Alonso does in China then it is only a matter of time, Alonso cannot win the constructors title alone!!
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Perez says he's committed to Sauber for 2012...of course he would say that.
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/177992/1/perez_full_commitment_to_sauber.html (http://www.crash.net/f1/news/177992/1/perez_full_commitment_to_sauber.html)
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Lets see what did happened to the 2nd drivers of Ferrari in the last 15 Years...
If your 1st driver is down, you became the runners up of Driver's title ('99 Eddie, '08 Massa)
If you are good, support the team for 4 consecutive title, be an ideal no 2, you will be see you contract off (Rubens from 99 to 05)
Should Sergio be going to a team, where undoubtedly Alonso will be a first priority, given the ability and the reputation he have?? And history suggest Fisi was doing great in Force India, before the switch, running Raikonen to limit, almost earning the first win for Force India. As it happened did he ever reproduced that great drive ever in Ferrari?
I recall none, probably it is so because there was not any...
Given this facts, should Sergio join Ferrari... I guess its the lure of being a part of history, and also high paying bonuses, as well as the politics behind... they might end up as winner...
As for Massa, he should retire, because after his accident he lost his edge that made him a Ferrari driver. It may be proving difficult for him, so before you loose it further, along with the team, please take a break Felipe...
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I wonder how much discussion there really should be on this. I think the writing was on the wall shortly after he signed his current contract. Ferrari will keep him on unless he does something really, really stupid (first race might have been a 1st strike kind of deal, second race was not normal, so Ferrari won't count it against him I think).
Another discussion worth having is will Massa try, a la Rubens to stay on in F1 with any team that will sign him until he is forced through the door, knuckles in a death grip on the steering wheel as they yank him through the door (and where he will continue the same way through the other series, Indy, and then...shudder...NASCAR).
Or...will he like Irvine, hit the road with a laugh and a big bag of money as soon as the party's over (I actually admire Irvine for the way he left the sport instead of grovelling around for any seat available on the grid).
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I would walk away unless I got an offer from a good team, but I think I would try to get into WEC or Alms because I like those cars and that kind of racing.
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I wonder how much discussion there really should be on this. I think the writing was on the wall shortly after he signed his current contract. Ferrari will keep him on unless he does something really, really stupid (first race might have been a 1st strike kind of deal, second race was not normal, so Ferrari won't count it against him I think).
Another discussion worth having is will Massa try, a la Rubens to stay on in F1 with any team that will sign him until he is forced through the door, knuckles in a death grip on the steering wheel as they yank him through the door (and where he will continue the same way through the other series, Indy, and then...shudder...NASCAR).
Or...will he like Irvine, hit the road with a laugh and a big bag of money as soon as the party's over (I actually admire Irvine for the way he left the sport instead of grovelling around for any seat available on the grid).
I met Eddie quite a few years back at a meet and greet- and he was hilarious, honest and thought-provoking- he was always game for a laugh and i too admired him for just leaving the sport rather than pootling around.
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It might have changed since then, but it wasn't so long ago I read somewhere that Irvine was in fact worth more than Schumacher. Being Irish he was always a skinflint with money ( :P David :P ), and he was a heck of an investor. :good:
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I've never been a big fan of The Swerve. There is a famous story abut the beginning of the end for Ford in F1 (and maybe Ford in general). At a meeting in 2001, Jacques Nasser, the CEO of Ford, was asked by a member of the Ford family who was the highest paid person in the company. Nasser answered, "That would be me." The Ford responded, "No, it's someone named Eddie Irvine."
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It might have changed since then, but it wasn't so long ago I read somewhere that Irvine was in fact worth more than Schumacher. Being Irish he was always a skinflint with money ( :P David :P ), and he was a heck of an investor. :good:
Wish some of that would rub off on me! :P
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If Eddie had stuck around with that ailling Jaguar team, he might have another shot at the championship tittle at Red Bull, I know it is so many if and buts but on the long shot, having driven that wretched Jag for quite sometime, staying may have rewarded him the luxury that Mark Webber today is enjoying.... I wonder people, I wonder which would have been a racer decision rather than a wise investors decision...
I somehow respect Rubens stick around for that long, though he had bad luck at number of times (In Ferrari and Brawn he had championship winning cars, but could not outshine his team-mate)...
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Perez says "No way Jose!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8E9kPOg0RM&feature=g-all-u&context=G2e0e942FAAAAAAAAAAA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8E9kPOg0RM&feature=g-all-u&context=G2e0e942FAAAAAAAAAAA)
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I still think Massa is not the problem. When they give Alonso a car that makes podiums regularly and Massa is still down in the teens, then I would reconsider that. I hope they also stick to their priorities.
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Perez says "No way Jose!"
What's he going to say to such a hypothetical?
"Yeah, they guys who I'm counting on to set up my car tomorrow aren't very good. Can't wait to leave those losers behind"?
That was a very smart answer. He's a boy who will go far in F1 :)
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Right now he would seem to be leaving a team that has a pretty good car, to go to a team that is struggling. What is a name worth? Ferrari hasn't had a really good car since 2009.