GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: marriner on June 14, 2010, 05:31:31 AM
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My opinion is that he was released dangerously into the Ferrari and then failed to yield. He should have been penalised.
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As i said in Hereos and Zeros i think that the team did desrve a penalty, a fine or somthing. but not a drive through or stop and go. Hamilton did nothing wrong, he was unsafely released (teams fault) then he held his position and didnt put any preasure on Alonso until he they were out of the pits. The only thing you could pin Hamilton with not slowing to let Alonso get fully ahead, but are the stewards really going to punish him for that after what we have seen this year? :DntKnw:
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Spot on PG F1 is getting a little over the top on these things its a race for ****** sake.
Great race though!! :yahoo:
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They are not supposed to race in the pit lane. There are too many people standing around who could be injured. Imagine a car being knocked into a garage at even 60 MPH. I don't think you are allowed to drive the length of the pits with 2 wheels inside the blue line. Louis was warned before, if the stewards don't stop this there will be a nasty accident eventually I fear.
Lonny
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Absolutely Lonny. It's far too dangerous to have two cars, side by side going down the pits. If the FIA aren't even going to enforce their own unsafe release rule, then they should come up with a more sensible one like - when two cars are side by side, outside car has right of way and inside car must immedtiately slow and pull in behind.
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Don't agree, Lewis should not have been punished. This is a stupid rule anyway, basically they have designed a rule where the team behind always has the advantage. As it happens Lewis' car was released after the Ferrari but Lewis' car got too much wheel spin and then had to dodge the RB's cables. Lewis was fair down the pitlane and did not do what has been done in the past and force a car into the wall or mechanics. If they are going to implement this rule then it has to be a team only penalty, the driver can see nothing in those mirrors.
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I thought it added to the excitment of the race and hope they don't bring in a load of rubbish rules just on safety grounds. I agree with SH this time neither driver tried to force the other driver into a dangerous situation and for two sworn enemies I thought they behaved themselves well, so hats off to Alonso & Lewis for racing in the spirit of competition.
All the guys working for the teams in the pit lane will just accept it as part of racing and they probably enjoyed the grandstand view of it happening. I really really hope that they don't go on a pit lane safety crusade because of this balls out racing.
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Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree. I've been on the pit wall (in CART) and I was pretty happy there was a cement barrier there. Not everyone is watching the show the whole time, and might not have the chance to dodge a car skidding towards them. F1 doesn't even have the barriers protecting either the team in the garage or in the team booths on the left side. Two cars racing side by side, even at 60kph is dangerous. It might work when Alonso and Hammy do it, but would it be for Chadhook and Liuzzi??
They have to do something to stop it. At the end of pit lane, after the line, I don't care if they are 3 wide, but there is way too much going on in pit lane for drivers to be wheel to wheel down it.
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Lewis did'nt deserve a stop/go penalty it was the lollipop mans fault for letting him go. BUT, they do need to stop this now. We have seen pitcrews knocked down before on pitstops and that is at a slow speed, what we don't want is a car losing control at 50mph and slamming into them as their job is already more dangerous than a drivers.
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Absolutely Lonny. It's far too dangerous to have two cars, side by side going down the pits. If the FIA aren't even going to enforce their own unsafe release rule, then they should come up with a more sensible one like - when two cars are side by side, outside car has right of way and inside car must immedtiately slow and pull in behind.
That's fairly sensible, and easily enforced.
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Don't agree, Lewis should not have been punished. This is a stupid rule anyway, basically they have designed a rule where the team behind always has the advantage. As it happens Lewis' car was released after the Ferrari but Lewis' car got too much wheel spin and then had to dodge the RB's cables. Lewis was fair down the pitlane and did not do what has been done in the past and force a car into the wall or mechanics. If they are going to implement this rule then it has to be a team only penalty, the driver can see nothing in those mirrors.
It's a team sport, Hamilton didn't build the car, choose the fuel strategy or change a single tire. Awards and punishments are earned as a team.
Honestly, I enjoy the spectacle of cars jostling in the pit lane, but I agree with those who say waiting for accident before creating a solid rule is a bad policy.
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And if there was no Lewis the car wouldn't move :tease: If it was purely a team sport then there would be no Drivers Championship. Simple if they want to enforce these stupid rules they've not thought through properly, then they should punish the team in the constructors championship. More importantly if they want safety they have to either increase the size of the pitlanes or the only way in current system of making it bullet proof is for the FIA to have lights in each pit box and have control of them. Then there is no more team influence and human error. As far as I am concerned though, either you are racing or you are playing Mr Nice Fraggle by letting everyone through before you mirror, signal, manoeuvre! Is that what we want indicators and lights with which to flash out merging traffic???? Come on guys (and girls) its motor racing and its dangerous.
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And if there was no Lewis the car wouldn't move :tease: If it was purely a team sport then there would be no Drivers Championship. Simple if they want to enforce these stupid rules they've not thought through properly, then they should punish the team in the constructors championship. More importantly if they want safety they have to either increase the size of the pitlanes or the only way in current system of making it bullet proof is for the FIA to have lights in each pit box and have control of them. Then there is no more team influence and human error. As far as I am concerned though, either you are racing or you are playing Mr Nice Fraggle by letting everyone through before you mirror, signal, manoeuvre! Is that what we want indicators and lights with which to flash out merging traffic???? Come on guys (and girls) its motor racing and its dangerous.
Hamilton has mirrors, and admits he saw Alonso leaving the pit box. Just because he was told to go, doesn't make it the right thing to do.
'Following Orders' was already tried as a defense by some folks Max Mosley found exciting. Didn't work for them either.
The rules need to be clarified/enforced: if F1 wants pit lane to be an exciting danger zone, that's fine... everyone there should know to have their head on a swivel (perhaps bring in Navy personnel who worked on aircraft carriers?). If F1 wants to be extra cautious, then they need to apply the rules. What is going on now is confusing, and more dangerous than just letting the teams go crazy.
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The team deserve the penalty not Lewis IMO. The driver needs to team to tell him when it's safe to go. Alonso wasn't going to give in either, glad Lewis had the sense not to push it.
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The team deserve the penalty not Lewis IMO. The driver needs to team to tell him when it's safe to go. Alonso wasn't going to give in either, glad Lewis had the sense not to push it.
Make the lollipop man run a lap? Sit in a corner?
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The team deserve the penalty not Lewis IMO. The driver needs to team to tell him when it's safe to go. Alonso wasn't going to give in either, glad Lewis had the sense not to push it.
Make the lollipop man run a lap? Sit in a corner?
That's not a bad idea Jeri only I will expand. Make the offending lollipop man jog the start finish straight after the race wearing nothing but a tight fitting thong. Insentive to make the proper call??
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I think he should have been penalized too,I'm sure
he knew he was in the wrong and could have slowed
and let Alonso lead out of the pits.
It leaves a door open for drivers to risk lives knowing no
penality will be invoked.
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Ok punish the team for an unsafe release, but it was Lewis who drove the length of the pit lane with 2 tires over the line endangering crews all the way. A crew member has no chance of dodging an out of control car sliding through the pits. Just because racing is dangerous doesn't mean 4 or 5 people should be injured or killed to add to the spectacle. Risk is for the track, not the pits.
Lonny
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By the time Lewis was alongside he knew Alonso was there, neither driver made any dangerous moves. This idea that 2 cars can't drive together at speed without crashing has obviously come about thanks to the Red Bulls recently! The only place a crash was likely to happen was when Lewis came out alongside Alonso. They both acted sensibly as far as I am concerned. Anyway, as was said previously if the FIA actually make a rule out of it then they must state that the driver in the pitlane will always have priority and the other car will have to drop back. However, what happens if there is a line of cars, say for example a driver is released like happened at the weekend. Alonso was to slow as was Hamilton until they sorted themselves out, now a car behind was able to close up on their position because of this reduction in speed. Now Lewis was released before the car behind Alonso but is he now going to have to stop and let the other car passed too? Also what happens if they are safely released but the engine bogs down and they pull away slowly, who is penalised then? You can't infinitely manage situations in racing. I guess the only way a lot of you guys will be happy is when we have no refuelling (check) and tyres that last all race to reduce danger to the pit crews during tyre stops!
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You can't infinitely manage situations in racing. I guess the only way a lot of you guys will be happy is when we have no refuelling (check) and tyres that last all race to reduce danger to the pit crews during tyre stops!
It is incumbant on any organisation to mitigate any obvious risks. F1 is a dangerous sport, all the drivers and all the pit crew must understand that. However, if F1 comes across as endangering the people along pit lane just to increase spectacle, there are serious legal consequences. Don't forget that Frank Williams was charged with murder when Ayrton Senna died. I would agree that was a racing incident, but there was a case to be made that Frank put winning ahead of safety.
The FIA has already recognised that the pits are a dangerous place. If they become lax and someone dies, there is a possibility of very serious legal action that could change the sport dramatically.
I want the entire experience to be as exciting as possible, and that element of risk does add to the spectacle. However, I don't want to lose F1 so two guys can fight over 10 feet of concrete.
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Never mind wheather lewis deserves a penalty i cant believe schumacher has got away scott free after his over aggresive driving the entire race.
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It is Schumacher you are talking about! :D
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You can't infinitely manage situations in racing. I guess the only way a lot of you guys will be happy is when we have no refuelling (check) and tyres that last all race to reduce danger to the pit crews during tyre stops!
It is incumbant on any organisation to mitigate any obvious risks. F1 is a dangerous sport, all the drivers and all the pit crew must understand that. However, if F1 comes across as endangering the people along pit lane just to increase spectacle, there are serious legal consequences. Don't forget that Frank Williams was charged with murder when Ayrton Senna died. I would agree that was a racing incident, but there was a case to be made that Frank put winning ahead of safety.
The FIA has already recognised that the pits are a dangerous place. If they become lax and someone dies, there is a possibility of very serious legal action that could change the sport dramatically.
I want the entire experience to be as exciting as possible, and that element of risk does add to the spectacle. However, I don't want to lose F1 so two guys can fight over 10 feet of concrete.
OK, I think I have the final solution! We turn the pit garages round 90deg so that the cars come in the back of the pit garages. They then have to get their tyres changed in the garages, each car has its own space then. Then they can leave their garages and head for the pitlane exit where there is no people in danger. Like an exit to a toll booth! Might struggle to incorporate it in the confines of Monaco though!!
Ok more realistic one is to have 2 lane pitlanes, one fast lane at 60mph and one slower at 40mph. If you are stuck in the slower lane ie as Hamilton was, then Alonso would pass by until Hamilton could get into the outer lane and go at 60. Would mean the cars would also approach the crews at a slower rate and they would be released into a slower lane until they could check their mirrors and pull out into the faster lane.
Failing that we fit them all with a bit of plastic and brashes, install slots into the track and call it Scaletrix!! :D
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Here's another...let's take all the barriers down altogether. Racing is inherently dangerous right? Everyone knows that. Ya takes yer chances when you buy that ticket, just like the pit crews, just like the drivers. Why give the drivers all the adrenalin? Why make it safer when we can make it more dangerous.
Seriously, there already is enough room for two cars to drive side by side down the lane, but it's extremely dangerous, and had someone been pitting ahead of those two and then been released, it could have been a three car massive crash. Why should they hold until Alonso and Hamilton get by? There is no point if there is no penalty. Another scenario - someone was pitting ahead of them, and one of the team members who had not seen them coming and had his butt sticking out just a bit too far while he was changing the wheel - KAPOW!
As for the double pit lane speeds, could you imagine trying to police that? Bad enough it takes the FIA 40 laps to figure out if someone was speeding at all, much less trying to sort out if another car was speeding in the slow lane. Simplest rule would be that if a car that is released can't safely enter the proper pit lane, then he must slow and allow the other car to pass, then pull in behind.
:DntKnw: :DntKnw:
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Exactly. Hamilton ended up behind Alonso anyway.
Lonny
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Actually Hamilton finished ahead of Alonso, I believe he won???! :tease:
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I think Hamilton's release was unsafe but also unavoidable. The gap between Alonso's release and Hamilton's was so small that it would have been difficult to spot. The only reason anyone is complaining is because the gaps between the pits are so small at Montreal that coming out of the pits 2 team slots away would be within the recommended 55m, let alone 1!
Lewis shouldn't have had wheels in other teams' pit lanes and broke rules in putting them in the FIA's slot (oddly the only one for which a penalty can be issued), but the pit ane is not wide enough for two cars and since there was no way of making it so that only one at a time was there, what happened was inevitable.
It was entirely the FIA's foul-up and the FIA should pay any penaties due on this occasion.
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To add excitement the cars could use the pit crews as tenpins and go for a strike.
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Actually Hamilton finished ahead of Alonso, I believe he won???! :tease:
But when they reached the end of the pit lane, Lewis fell in behind Alonso, leading to an excellent pass a few laps later. :P
Lonny
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:good: :D