GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: lkjohnson1950 on April 10, 2012, 05:22:43 AM
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http://latuffcartoons.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/king-hamad-bernie-ecclestone-and-formula-one-in-bahrain.gif (http://latuffcartoons.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/king-hamad-bernie-ecclestone-and-formula-one-in-bahrain.gif)
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Good one. Here's another. Glad to be reading here and there that it probably won't happen, but if Bernie forcers it through it'll be the worst thing he's done in a long while.
http://twitpic.com/96vo3s (http://twitpic.com/96vo3s)
No to Bahrain!
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While I don't agree with racing in a country experience turmoil, the FIA and FOM are trying to be non political (outside their own domain), which is admirable.
If lives are at risk, that rules out the Brazilian Grand Prix, doesn't it?
USA, Britain and Germany are actively at war with Afghanistan. Is that a reason to cancel their races?
Is a protest at the track reason to cancel? Any country is going to have a group of people protesting an F1 race.
If it's up to Bernie to decide who can legitimately operate and GP and who cannot, I don't see how that makes the sport better, even if it means coming down on the wrong side of history once in a while.
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While I don't agree with racing in a country experience turmoil, the FIA and FOM are trying to be non political (outside their own domain), which is admirable.
If lives are at risk, that rules out the Brazilian Grand Prix, doesn't it?
USA, Britain and Germany are actively at war with Afghanistan. Is that a reason to cancel their races?
Is a protest at the track reason to cancel? Any country is going to have a group of people protesting an F1 race.
If it's up to Bernie to decide who can legitimately operate and GP and who cannot, I don't see how that makes the sport better, even if it means coming down on the wrong side of history once in a while.
There is an active crackdown on democracy in Bahrain. The majority Shia population are not being allowed to protest – instead they're being shot at or locked up. Bernie and the Al Khalifa family (who are effectively King and government) choose to paint a different picture to what's really going on, as they think it will pull the wool over peoples' eyes. Unfortunately for them, most people aren't fooled, hence the concerns, and overwhelming feeling that it shouldn't go ahead.
I think staging a Grand Prix at this stage would essentially condone what's going on, and that's not right. It's not about F1, it's bigger than that.
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I agree. F1 should not put itself in support of despots.
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Lets face it, it's one despot supporting another despot.
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There is an active crackdown on democracy in Bahrain. The majority Shia population are not being allowed to protest – instead they're being shot at or locked up. Bernie and the Al Khalifa family (who are effectively King and government) choose to paint a different picture to what's really going on, as they think it will pull the wool over peoples' eyes. Unfortunately for them, most people aren't fooled, hence the concerns, and overwhelming feeling that it shouldn't go ahead.
I think staging a Grand Prix at this stage would essentially condone what's going on, and that's not right. It's not about F1, it's bigger than that.
That's a pretty simplistic view I think, the political reforms that started in the 90's and gathered speed early in the noughties seem to have been hijacked by religious factions. For instance, Womens rights, their freedom to vote and their ability to stand for election to national political office, all of which were enshrined in law in the early noughties, have been totally trodden down by religious zealots and by Shia followers in particular.
In my opinion the present intafada is more about imposing a religious state in place of the constitutional monarchy, rather than working for human rights.
Bahrain also has the freest economy in the Middle East and is tenth freest overall in the world based on the 2011 Index of Economic Freedom (published by the Heritage Foundation/Wall Street Journal).
Set against the record of most other regimes in the Middle East & Africa, the Kingdom of Bahrain looks more democratic than a lot of Western countries.
F1 is sport and should not involve itself in National politics - the decision to go or not should be solely on grounds of safety, and as Jeri has already said Brazil is probably a much more dangerous race weekend for team members.
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It appears that King Hamad is opposed by most of his people and most international human rights groups, and supported by Bernie Ecclestone (FOM) and Rupert Murdoch (Heritage Foundation/Wall Street Journal/News of the World).
A poll in the current F1 Racing show that 60% of respondents Oppose or Strongly Oppose the race going ahead.
In any case does F1 really need to show up in the middle of someone else's civil war? Do a few Brazilian footpads really compare to being in the middle of someone else's civil war? The race would just be a juicy, high value target televised live to the entire world.
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I hate to see a race canceled, but without a doubt it is for the better. I just wish they had a replacement ready. Magny Cours? Paul Ricard? Nurbergring? Istanbul?
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At least one protest group has announced that they intend to target the GP. Whether that means laying down in front of trucks or tossing hand grenades wasn't specified.
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That's a pretty simplistic view I think, the political reforms that started in the 90's and gathered speed early in the noughties seem to have been hijacked by religious factions. For instance, Womens rights, their freedom to vote and their ability to stand for election to national political office, all of which were enshrined in law in the early noughties, have been totally trodden down by religious zealots and by Shia followers in particular.
In my opinion the present intafada is more about imposing a religious state in place of the constitutional monarchy, rather than working for human rights.
Bahrain also has the freest economy in the Middle East and is tenth freest overall in the world based on the 2011 Index of Economic Freedom (published by the Heritage Foundation/Wall Street Journal).
Set against the record of most other regimes in the Middle East & Africa, the Kingdom of Bahrain looks more democratic than a lot of Western countries.
F1 is sport and should not involve itself in National politics - the decision to go or not should be solely on grounds of safety, and as Jeri has already said Brazil is probably a much more dangerous race weekend for team members.
It's a simplistic view because it's a simple question - of whether now is the right TIME to stage a GP in Bahrain.
It's got nothing to do with 90s politics, nor would any sporting event to be held in 2012, it's not that complex. It's about whether staging a GP would make any difference to the people of Bahrain. I think it would send a message condoning what's going on there, which for the majority of people in Bahrain would be a negative.
In reference to the safety issue, I agree that in an ideal situation, safety should be the primary concern when deciding whether to host a GP. In this case it's past that already - there are bigger things happening in the country. Of course, if it goes ahead, there would be a doubling of military presence, if not tripling, even tighter controls on 'the masses' and everyone involved in the GP would be safe - it's the safety of the Bahranians, not the damn GP team members that counts!!!
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It appears that King Hamad is opposed by most of his people and most international human rights groups,
I think you'll find most human rights groups oppose a lot of what the US and British governments get up to as well.
Bahrain is a constitutional monarchy and has a 2 house system of government, one appointed council and one elected council. Err.. let me think that sounds mighty familiar to us Brits, yes I know it's the non elected that have a bigger say in Bahrain, but it's still better democracy than most Mid East states.
A lot of what is going on is more about differing religious factions, Sunni and Shī'a Islamists, struggling for power at the expense of the more tolerant liberal sections of the population.
It appears that more power has been welded in the states name by religious leaders than the King. Indeed it was the path towards to democracy with elections to government in 2006 that led to the religious parties starting to dominate Bahraini politics.
Almost every country detains political prisoners of one sort or another, it seems to depend largely on media views whether such detentions are good or bad - or indeed justified or not.
If we call it civil war when there is heavy coordinated opposition, sometimes violent, towards their own government, then I guess half the world is in a state of civil war.
In my opinion it is a mistake to think the Bahraini situation is remotely similar to what is taking place in Syria. I feel the situation has more in common with China and how they deal with disaffected groups, no sign of the Chinese GP not taking place though.
So unless we want all sporting events around the world to be at the mercy of protesters, militants or fundamentalists of any kind, the race should go on.
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I can't think of a single established, main stream human rights group that claims that the current government of the U.S. is not legitimate. Bahrain, on the other hand, follows the advice of another "constitutional" leader, Josef Stalin: ""Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything."
You compare the Bahraini government to that of the U.K. King Hamad still has absolute power. He can override the legislature on anything at any time for any reason. The Bahraini legislature more closely resembles the North Korean Supreme People's Assembly than it does the U.K. Parliament or U.S. Congress.
I do agree with you about the Chinese GP. It should go away, too.
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Jackie Stewart adds his support for the Bahrain GP to go ahead. I believe JYS is right and sport must not become a political pawn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVKTrVLqNqE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVKTrVLqNqE)
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Jackie Stewart adds his support for the Bahrain GP to go ahead. I believe JYS is right and sport must not become a political pawn.
F1 might be wrong for doing business in Bahrain in the first place, but it would be wrong to back down now.
Worst case scenario... everyone who thinks a race in Bahrain was a bad idea is right, and the (sporting) world is keenly focused on what a disaster the country is. That would be a good thing, wouldn't it?
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I can think of many other "Worst case scenarios." Most of them involve truck bombs. Did you watch the Al Jazeera video that John S posted? People dressed as F1 drivers holding guns on children. F1 didn't go there last year and the world didn't end.
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According to the Aussie news programme that I'm watching it looks pretty certain to be cancelled.
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I can think of many other "Worst case scenarios." Most of them involve truck bombs. Did you watch the Al Jazeera video that John S posted? People dressed as F1 drivers holding guns on children. F1 didn't go there last year and the world didn't end.
Is the problem that there is a totalitarian regime that Bernie is dealing with?
Or psychos that that the regime is trying to put down?
If we're worried about the psychos, it means that F1 can be pushed around, and others who oppose the sport might become more brazen.
If we're worried about the totalitarians, why would they attack a race they paid for?
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The despot has already started the killing. I'm afraid of that snowballing. As I said, F1 didn't run there last year and the world didn't come to an end.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20120320/eu-un-bahrain-protest-deaths/ (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20120320/eu-un-bahrain-protest-deaths/)
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Worst case scenario, bomb similar to the one that went off yesterday in Bahrain, goes off in hotel, paddock or grandstand killing and injuring F1 fans or team members.
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Best case scenario: GP passes off seemingly peacefully - no issues to speak of anywhere near the track or teams. But, in the background extreme measures have been taken to ensure this, such as protests being violently crushed, more deaths, and more protestors locked up without due cause. This is later reported via various networks and social media, making the 'peaceful' GP look like a sham, a collusion, and an attempted cover up to give a false impression of what's actually going on in Bahrain.
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Worst case scenario, bomb similar to the one that went off yesterday in Bahrain, goes off in hotel, paddock or grandstand killing and injuring F1 fans or team members.
So... the problem is that Bernie is doing business with the GOOD guy?
(I suppose 'lesser of two evils' is a better phrase.)
And the problem is that the 'good guy' will brutally stop his citizens from killing people so we can watch F1?
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Or will the despot arrange for the bomb himself to discredit the liberation movement?
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Or will the despot arrange for the bomb himself to discredit the liberation movement?
All depends whether the king takes advice from the CIA. ;)
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Or will the despot arrange for the bomb himself to discredit the liberation movement?
All depends whether the king takes advice from the CIA. ;)
I think all gov's,not just the US or up to some pretty devious plans
to justify what they want.
We'll never know what goes on behind closed doors
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Yet another take:
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article7640709.ece/ALTERNATES/w940/cartoon20120413.jpg (http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article7640709.ece/ALTERNATES/w940/cartoon20120413.jpg)
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Not sure it's such a good idea to be there.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17767985 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17767985)
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Not sure it's such a good idea to be there.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17767985 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17767985)
I hope someone is making a documentary of F1's participation in Bahrain this year. It could do wonders for bringing world attention to what is going on. I HOPE there's no big story for the doc, but it sounds like there is more than enough to put together 90 minutes of outrage.
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Some fancy stuff, I hope they could manage something that could inspect and stall the the mind of Bernie... :good: :good: