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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: markfarrell9572 on August 27, 2011, 06:52:05 PM

Title: Maldonado
Post by: markfarrell9572 on August 27, 2011, 06:52:05 PM
5 place grid penalty for his contretemps with Hamilton today.  Did he get away lightly?  And was a reprimand for Lewis justified?
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Ian on August 27, 2011, 08:48:54 PM
A 5 place grid penalty for that is pathetic, should have been much harsher, and I can't understand why Lewis got a reprimand, Maldonado swerved into him, if the positions were reversed you can guarantee Lewis would have been punished far worse.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: David on August 27, 2011, 09:45:01 PM
Can't help think if the tables were turned and Lewis was in the wrong the penalty would have been greater.  :DntKnw:
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Jericoke on August 27, 2011, 10:30:17 PM
Coulthard and Brundle were sure that Maldonado would be kicked out of the race.

I'd like to know what Hamilton was reprimanded for.  Probably his reputation at this point  :DntKnw:
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: John S on August 27, 2011, 10:52:26 PM

No doubt that Maldonado got off lightly for what was clearly a pop at Lewis, although I'm sure that Pastor would have got a bigger penalty if Lewis had not been able to run in Q3.  The decision is a bit pathetic if you ask me, they banned DRS use thru Eau Rouge on safety grounds so it appears the FIA wants to save drivers from themselves but not from other competitors.  :crazy:

I think the reprimand for Lewis is about his initial lunge for the line past the Williams. Everyone says the show needs spicing up with overtaking but no one seems to have told the Stewards. ::)


Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: cosworth151 on August 28, 2011, 12:34:31 AM
I was shocked to see how lightly Maldonado got off. I didn't see Hamilton do anything wrong. Lewis looked to be ahead of Pastor on the overtake when Pastor moved into him. The second hit was clearly intentional.

Maybe Maldonado is getting in practice for his eventual trip to NASCAR-land.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on August 28, 2011, 04:40:40 AM
I think Lewis was reprimanded for touching wheels with Maldonado at the chicane. the Stewards don't like contact. I also think Maldonado was kind of telling Lewis not to take him for granted. I believe he was a bit angry about the move at the chicane. Only the two of them know just how dangerous it truly was.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Ian on August 28, 2011, 08:25:36 AM
Lewis's move on Maldonado at the chicane was good and safe, Maldonado left the door open and Lewis went through, Maldonado just swerving into Lewis was downright dangerous and I also think he should have been disqualified from this GP.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Alianora La Canta on August 28, 2011, 09:53:16 PM
I was all for sending the pair of them to the back of the grid (and put one of them in the pit lane to avoid a repetition of the incident). To me, Pastor caused the first collision in the chicane and Lewis the second one. Neither crash was acceptable, but if Schumacher parting at Rasscasse didn't warrant being sent home, neither did either crash in qualifying.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Ian on August 28, 2011, 10:38:26 PM
Sorry Ali but I don't see how Lewis caused the 2nd coming together.  :DntKnw:
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Cam on August 29, 2011, 12:29:03 PM
What everyone appears to have missed is that that just prior to Maldonado swerving into Lewis, Lewis made a very sudden and significant feint to the right.  I reckon Maldonado was just returning serve, not realising that Lewis was going to perpetuate the pissing contest and try and drag him up Eau Rouge.

I dont believe Maldonado intended to collide with Lewis anymore than Lewis intended to collide with Maldonado.  I have to believe that he is not that stupid or lacking in a sense of self preservation.

The whole thing reminds me of my 9 and 6 year old daughters when they are intent on winding each other up, the level of each retaliation goes up a notch.  Then of course they come to me utterly convinced that the other one started it. 
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: stealthhaggis on August 29, 2011, 06:12:55 PM
Maldonado knew exactly what he was doing. Just because he did not like getting passed by Lewis at the end is no excuse for turning into him deliberately. It is an absolute disgrace that he was only given a 5 place grid penalty as he still thinks that it was unfair! The guy is delusional and he was damn lucky it was against Lewis and not another driver or he would have been punished appropriately. He showed no remorse when talking to the BBC afterwards which only shows he would do it again in a heartbeat. Apparantly Lewis is not allowed to drive his car anywhere on the track especially when someone else is around and collides with him. I find it ridiculous that people make excuses for accidents when it involves him especially when other drivers do the same thing and are defended to the hilt. I hope Maldonught gets what is coming to him and Schumacher shows him how to really pull off a move like that!
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Monty on August 30, 2011, 04:07:23 PM
Lewis was completely innocent in the first collision and had every right to be fuming that Maldonado tried to shut the door on Lewis' fast lap.
It is probably true that Lewis was letting Maldonado know that he wasn't happy (I do think that initially he deliberately 'jinked' right) but he wasn't doing anything dangerous.
Maldonado then deliberately turned left and in my opinion had every intention of hitting Lewis. It was incredibly dangerous and he should have been excluded.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Alianora La Canta on August 31, 2011, 06:53:02 PM
Sorry Ali but I don't see how Lewis caused the 2nd coming together.  :DntKnw:

Because he was doing all the moving - Pastor was on line and had the corner.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Monty on September 01, 2011, 11:50:23 AM
Unusually I do not agree with Ali
Also I think there is some misunderstanding of which 'coming together' we are talking about.
During the quali session Maldonado's lap had been ruined by what was going on in front of him. Lewis was still at a good pace and Maldonado should have made sure he kept out of the way. Instead Maldonado tried to fight and almost blocked Lewis.
I think this is what we are refering tom as the 'first coming together'.
At the end of the session, I suspect that Lewis slowed down to 'wave' to Maldonado to let him know that he wasn't happy. As I said, I do think that initially he deliberately 'jinked' right as part of his 'wave' but he definitely wasn't doing anything dangerous.
After that Lewis did not put in any steering input but Maldonado steered left and hit the Maclaren. Definitely Maldonado's fault and I think, deliberate.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: stealthhaggis on September 02, 2011, 03:59:12 PM
100% Maldoados fault, if you did that on the open road and wee caught you would be penalised for dangerous driving possibly even banned.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Alianora La Canta on September 03, 2011, 10:45:41 PM
Unusually I do not agree with Ali
Also I think there is some misunderstanding of which 'coming together' we are talking about.
During the quali session Maldonado's lap had been ruined by what was going on in front of him. Lewis was still at a good pace and Maldonado should have made sure he kept out of the way. Instead Maldonado tried to fight and almost blocked Lewis.
I think this is what we are refering tom as the 'first coming together'.

Pastor was also on his fastest lap at that point. Both were entitled to the rights someone on their "hot lap" can expect, which was of course something of a problem as there was insufficient track to enable both of them to have them.

For me Pastor was still the one in the wrong - once he was pressured/allowed himself to be pressured off-line, he should have stayed there. He must have known that attempting to turn in would cause a crash, which is why I reckon this was deliberate.

At the end of the session, I suspect that Lewis slowed down to 'wave' to Maldonado to let him know that he wasn't happy. As I said, I do think that initially he deliberately 'jinked' right as part of his 'wave' but he definitely wasn't doing anything dangerous.
After that Lewis did not put in any steering input but Maldonado steered left and hit the Maclaren. Definitely Maldonado's fault and I think, deliberate.

Firstly, the "wave" isn't universally recognised as meaning anything, so attempting it was risky. Secondly, Lewis connected in the "wave". Either Lewis was not in sufficient control of his car or he deliberately crashed. Pastor had to steer left a bit to regain control of his car afterwards and Lewis didn't give him space to do so. What exactly was Lewis expecting to happen?
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Ian on September 04, 2011, 12:47:43 AM
Lewis did not deliberately crash, Maldonado crashed into Lewis deliberately and should have been D/Q'd from the race.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: John S on September 04, 2011, 11:12:06 AM

Whilst I agree Pastor did run his car into lewis and it may or may not have been deliberate, it looked intentional to me. I am however mindful that he, Maldonado, is still in his rookie season and therefore a D/Q would be way too much. A very heavy but suspended penalty of some sort, if the stewards suspect malicious behaviour, seems the best way to improve manners and sportsmanship in such circumstances.

Leaving aside any question of motivation there was still an avoidable, and wholly unnecessary, accident; so whoever is judged to have caused it should have got at least a 10 place grid drop IMHO.

   
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: stealthhaggis on September 05, 2011, 09:28:34 AM

Firstly, the "wave" isn't universally recognised as meaning anything, so attempting it was risky. Secondly, Lewis connected in the "wave". Either Lewis was not in sufficient control of his car or he deliberately crashed. Pastor had to steer left a bit to regain control of his car afterwards and Lewis didn't give him space to do so. What exactly was Lewis expecting to happen?
Sorry but that is incorrect. Lewis did not connect in his weave, Maldonado connected in his aggressive move left. The video evidence is against you on that one. You can clearly see Maldonado move sharply to the left and during this movement he hits Lewis. That you are denying what is actually shown on video evidence is bizarre. It has even been said by the FIA that Lewis made no such movement at the time of the collision, Maldonado caused the crash. How anyone can defend that action is beyond me. Did you defend Schumacher the same way when he tried to put Rubens in the wall last season? Was that Rubens fault for being there as well?!  :DD
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Alianora La Canta on September 06, 2011, 01:42:52 PM

Firstly, the "wave" isn't universally recognised as meaning anything, so attempting it was risky. Secondly, Lewis connected in the "wave". Either Lewis was not in sufficient control of his car or he deliberately crashed. Pastor had to steer left a bit to regain control of his car afterwards and Lewis didn't give him space to do so. What exactly was Lewis expecting to happen?
Sorry but that is incorrect. Lewis did not connect in his weave, Maldonado connected in his aggressive move left. The video evidence is against you on that one. You can clearly see Maldonado move sharply to the left and during this movement he hits Lewis. That you are denying what is actually shown on video evidence is bizarre. It has even been said by the FIA that Lewis made no such movement at the time of the collision, Maldonado caused the crash. How anyone can defend that action is beyond me. Did you defend Schumacher the same way when he tried to put Rubens in the wall last season? Was that Rubens fault for being there as well?!  :DD

It was the video evidence I used to come to my assessment. The sharp left was a response to being hit mid-"wave". Hence the Schumacher analogy doesn't work and the sentence about "that you are denying what is actually shown on video evidence is bizarre" is one I have been wondering of others.

Summary: I expected better - much better - from the pair of them.
Title: Re: Maldonado
Post by: Monty on September 12, 2011, 01:57:00 PM
Quote
It was the video evidence I used to come to my assessment. The sharp left was a response to being hit mid-"wave". Hence the Schumacher analogy doesn't work and the sentence about "that you are denying what is actually shown on video evidence is bizarre" is one I have been wondering of others.

It is probably time to 'agree to disagree' except........you are wrong!

I also looked at the video. Hamilton did 'jink right'. It was a stupid, petulant thing to do but he did not even come close to making contact. He then continued in a straight line well over to the left of the track. Maldonado then steered (i.e. deliberately turned the steering wheel) to the left. Only then was there any contact.
Maldonado could have continued straight, or better still, moved slightly to the right to keep away from an extremely upset Hamilton but he chose to steer left.
Therefore, the crash (irrespective of other stupid & emotional reactions) was completely the fault of Maldonado.
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