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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Dare on January 02, 2015, 12:27:01 AM

Title: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Dare on January 02, 2015, 12:27:01 AM
Maybe I'm wrong but is it fair to lose a career over
one slip



http://www.auto123.com/en/racing-news/former-formula-1-driver-franck-montagny-tests-positive-for-cocaine-derivative?artid=173868&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=racing
Title: Re: Ftanck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Ian on January 02, 2015, 10:24:27 AM
If you use drugs be prepared to pay the penalty, no sympathy. It's much easier to just say NO
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Alianora La Canta on January 02, 2015, 04:17:21 PM
Technically, the ban for Franck cannot be longer than two years (if he'd been caught yesterday or later, it could have been a four-year ban as the limit changed on January 1). Of course, in practise, sponsors may not be willing to back Franck if they are worried he might return to drug-taking, or if they think there will be bad associations if they sponsor him.

At least Franck is not going to try arguing the point. I hope this means he will use this as a turning point and start living a drug-free lifestyle.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Scott on January 02, 2015, 10:07:59 PM
Ok, it's the new year, time for a little rant. 

I don't like it when they heap in all 'drugs' together.  It's a bit like saying anyone who ever drinks must be an alcoholic.  Montagny has been caught under the influence of a derivative of cocaine, a very addictive neurological stimulant, considered quite dangerous by the medical community.

There is such a huge range of recreational drugs though, and of those, I am a non-frequent user of cannabinoids.  I would in almost any situation prefer a little reefer or vaporized hash oil over a beer or glass of wine if one or the other was called for.  In my present situation - work life, family, geography - I am only realistically able to partake once or twice a year, but those of us who prefer THC to alcohol can finally see the sun on the horizon, as many countries are finally coming to the reality that Cannabis in comparison to alcohol is a much safer recreational stimulant.  I don't really want to get into the whole debate of what its effects are in comparison to alcohol, in fact I would suggest that I more often take the 'stay real' route and enjoy no stimulant other than my beloved caffeine, but I can only say that my personal preference is Cannabis, and I must say that of the people I know who might be found using both, I much prefer their company while they are under the influence of THC rather than alcohol.  And as a hotel/restaurant owner, I can tell you there is FAR less mess to clean up after someone who has had too much THC rather than someone who has had too much alcohol.

There, rant over.  Roll 'em if you got 'em...   ;)

Say no to some drugs, and you know what?  It never hurts to say no to alcohol.  Have a coffee.  :tease: :tease: :tease:
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Ian on January 03, 2015, 09:32:15 AM
Although this is gonna sound hypocritical after my 1st post on this, I have been known to partake of the reefer (and thoroughly enjoy it.)

I agree Scott, much more enjoyable to be in the company of friends who have shared a couple of joints rather than too much alcohol.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Scott on January 03, 2015, 02:09:20 PM
There we are...turn knob, step out of closet, stretch arms...and feel better.  ;)

Depending on which studies you want to look at, generally accepted numbers are that around 25-30% of Canadians are casual to regular users of marijuana, while more than 50% have tried it in their lifetime.  And those who support legalization in Canada is approaching 70%.  I had enough surprises in my youth, finding out that friends parents had stashes that their kids knew about, or little hidden roach ashtrays...often they were adults you never imagined would - one doctor, a lawyer and an architect to point out a few...we even got caught once in the garage of the architect while we were smoking one and instead of him freaking out, he joined us (from that moment on, the coolest parent on the block).
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: J.Clark on January 03, 2015, 02:26:22 PM
Certainly, he should be applauded for the confession and the 'head-hanging' of his own volition.  I always find it appalling when people are caught red-handed and then go through the whole 'I'm innocent' routine, as it speaks volumes about their character.  Montagny's character is bolstered by this.

Rules are rules however, and as is normally the case, there are consequences.  More of his character shines through his admission that he knows it could end his chances in motor racing.

I hope he won't quit, never to return, as a result.

I fully understand the issue of lumping all drugs into a single category for the purpose of punishment creating some problems, but I also believe that a dotted line in the sand is not actually a line at all.  The question then becomes more of a, how far from the water's edge should the line be drawn?
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: cosworth151 on January 03, 2015, 03:04:34 PM
Montagny's use of the phrase "a derivative of cocaine" caught my eye. I wonder if it was a commercial prescription drug of some kind. In any case, I hope we see him back in a race car soon.

The prohibition on marijuana is rapidly being thrown out by the voters over here in the States. It may be on the ballot here in Ohio later this year. All in all, I'd say it is less harmful than my dark Jamaican rum & cigars.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Scott on January 03, 2015, 04:58:23 PM
I fully understand the issue of lumping all drugs into a single category for the purpose of punishment creating some problems, but I also believe that a dotted line in the sand is not actually a line at all.  The question then becomes more of a, how far from the water's edge should the line be drawn?

Can't agree more, but then lets put marijuana where it belongs, on your shelf with the Rosemary, Thyme and Dill.  After all it really is just a little herb.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: J.Clark on January 03, 2015, 05:17:58 PM
I'm not a doctor, but I don't know the results may be of smoking some of them.  I know there is a great deal of controversy over mj though.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Dare on January 03, 2015, 06:14:45 PM
I'm not a doctor, but I don't know the results may be of smoking some of them.  I know there is a great deal of controversy over mj though.


How healthy is inhaling marijuana smoke and holding
it in your lungs?Think I'll pass on it.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: cosworth151 on January 03, 2015, 06:44:26 PM
In that case, may I recommend the brownies?  :confused:

Seriously, the prohibition on marijuana has been an even bigger disaster that the prohibition on alcohol was.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Dare on January 03, 2015, 10:02:37 PM
In that case, may I recommend the brownies?  :confused:

Seriously, the prohibition on marijuana has been an even bigger disaster that the prohibition on alcohol was.

I don't really need to be high to face the day,although at
times I think it might help.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: John S on January 04, 2015, 12:26:55 AM
Sorry to spoil the party but drugs and driving, like drink & driving, just don't mix.  :nono:

If you are a professional driver, racing or otherwise, you deserve to get banned for a long time.  |-( It's not just their own life they're risking - and since it's their job they should know better.

The link below from our good old NHS makes it clear there is plenty of evidence to show drug taking and motoring are a real No No, especially MJ.
In other sports the drug takers are just cheating the system - and maybe risking there own long term health, in Motor Racing drug takers are risking many others immediate health.  :crazy:

http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/drugged-driving

 
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Scott on January 04, 2015, 08:10:10 AM
Sorry John, the tangent my post took this thread wasn't about driving under the influence.  More about lumping everything under the heading of 'drugs'.  I don't think any of us would suggest that driving under the influence of THC is any better than alcohol.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Alianora La Canta on January 04, 2015, 10:10:57 AM
Scott, the difference between you and Franck is that Franck willingly signed up to WADA restrictions upon getting a FIA racing licence. This bans cannabinoids of all descriptions (which covers both what you say you take and what Franck was caught taking) due to a combination of potential performance enhancement and impairment. The former is a problem in a racing context because it gives people incentive to use drugs to gain an unfair advantage (pain relief is a pretty helpful thing to have if your car is not very comfy!), and the latter is a problem in motor sport for safety reasons (cocaine, and many other cannabinoids, are associated with reduced ability to assess risk... ...which makes me worry if this explains some of Franck's incidents in Formula E). Cocaine and all currently known derivatives are more of an impairment for motor racing than an advantage (it's the other way round for some other sports), but the FIA and WADA don't want either happening in their sport(s). Neither cares about recreation harm (except, in the FIA's case, about effects that might impact road use), but both care a lot about effects on sport.

Someone with a medical reason for taking a drug on the list can use documentation (known as a TUPE) to prove that no drug not on the list would be an effective substitute for their condition. If the FIA has this, they tell WADA to ignore anything that would be affected by the fact these medications are taken. Tomas Enge's second drugs ban was because he or the FIA had somehow managed to mess up the relevant paperwork (his first one, like Franck's, had no officially declared medical purpose).

Technically, drugs in motor sport are in four categories:

- Anabolic agents, growth hormones and other long-term performance-enhancing drugs are banned at all times (Some of these drugs are allowed in limited quantities due to some/all people naturally producing them, or research proving good/bad effects only kick in at a certain level). Also, there are bans on anything chemically similar to a known problematic substance to stop the sports doping industry from developing "Drug X with one molecule different" to get round the rules. (If someone developed "Drug X without the sporting effect, WADA would probably be more inclined to accept this, though I'm yet to hear of any drug successfully be taken off the "general" list this way).

- Some other drugs (cannabinoids, alcohol, beta-blockers, for example) are only banned if in the system 24 or fewer hours preceding a competitive session, or during it (immediate post-session tests count as "during" in this context) and can be used as much as desired when not near a race. These are generally drugs with provide no lasting sports-relevant effect but do cause impediment. In theory, a drug with purely short-term sports-relevant benefit and no sports-relevant detriments would be placed here too, but at the moment no such drug features on that list. If a driver had these in their system in an out-of-competition test, WADA doesn't care, except to make a note in their records that this happened. If, on the other hand, a test taken during or just before race weekend featured these things in banned quantities, it's treated as a breach of the rules (Franck's mistake, in WADA's eyes, was not in taking cocaine. It was in still having it in there when he did the post-race drugs test at his most recent Formula E race).

- Caffeine and several other drugs are on the monitoring list because WADA isn't sure whether or at what level these provide a performance enhancement or sports-relevant impairment. No penalty occurs if any driver has these at any time, but if athletes abused the substances and gained from them, future lists would have them as some sort of banned substance.

- Any drug not on the list is fine as far as WADA is concerned, even if it's illegal under a given country's laws. This has the odd result that LSD may be in the system at any level and WADA won't do anything about it (since it's not on their list and isn't chemically similar to anything that is). That may be because no racing driver has so far been stupid enough to drive while detrimentally under LSD's influence. I hope so, otherwise it implies that WADA thinks driving under LSD's influence is OK when most other people would intuitively conclude otherwise.

Also, addiction to a substance isn't banned, even if that addiction is having obvious detrimental effects, provided none of the drugs on WADA's list is involved. The FIA and other governing bodies are allowed to intervene in specific cases, and in the FIA's case they'd probably require medical clearance of people they suspected might be impaired through addiction to an otherwise-innocuous substance.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Ian on January 04, 2015, 11:14:02 AM
I wasn't condoning drugs and driving either John, my personal view is that if convicted of driving under the influence of drugs/alcohol it should be immediate imprisonment. Plus any driving ban should only begin when released from prison.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: cosworth151 on January 04, 2015, 04:23:05 PM
I didn't see that Montagny was accused of being under the influence while driving. He was simply accused of using them off track. If the same standard was applied to alcohol, Kimi would have been gone years ago.

Nobody is defending impaired driving. If we were to outlaw everything that might be misused in a motorcar, we need to do away with beer, cell phones, nav systems, cup holders and sex. I'm simply saying that having a double standard (alcohol, caffeine OK - marijuana evil wicked mean & nasty) is dangerous, hypocritical and counterproductive.  The only beneficiaries of such policies are the drugs cartels and the big corporate drugs testing, enforcement and prisons for profit industries. 
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Scott on January 04, 2015, 06:41:16 PM
Nobody is defending impaired driving. If we were to outlaw everything that might be misused in a motorcar, we need to do away with beer, cell phones, nav systems, cup holders and sex. I'm simply saying that having a double standard (alcohol, caffeine OK - marijuana evil wicked mean & nasty) is dangerous, hypocritical and counterproductive.  The only beneficiaries of such policies are the drugs cartels and the big corporate drugs testing, enforcement and prisons for profit industries. 
I wish I had said that.   :good: :good: :good: :good:
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: John S on January 04, 2015, 09:52:16 PM
Well I'd rather see them tax the hell out of marijuana than let criminal gangs make fortunes from it, but that's a different subject to dope testing in sport and motor racing in particular.

Montagny deserves the punishment he gets, he knows the rules and chose to ignore them for his own pleasure.

 
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Monty on January 05, 2015, 04:09:56 PM
Absolutely no sympathy.
If your career (especially one that you love and is in the forefront of public scrutiny) says no 'anything' you simply avoid it. No judgements of right or wrong, no discussions of if a little is too much, no decisions of if it is an acceptable type or not; just avoid it! Simples!
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: cosworth151 on January 05, 2015, 05:10:44 PM
I guess we just have a heritage over here that when The Authorities say "Thou shalt not!," we ask "Why not?"
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Scott on January 05, 2015, 08:25:29 PM
Absolutely no sympathy.
If your career (especially one that you love and is in the forefront of public scrutiny) says no 'anything' you simply avoid it. No judgements of right or wrong, no discussions of if a little is too much, no decisions of if it is an acceptable type or not; just avoid it! Simples!

In Canada there was a well known and extremely popular radio host on the national radio channel (CBC) named Jian Ghomeshi.  You guys in the USA even had him quite a bit on Public Radio - his interview show was called 'Q'.  I bring him up because what you said Monty is EXACTLY what I said about him when his scandal broke.  But it wasn't about drugs.  It was his attraction to violent and sometimes (who knows, maybe always) non consensual sex that got him in trouble. 

A big fan of his show and interview style, when his scandal broke, I could only shake my head at what an idiot he was to continue such a selfish activity while under massive public scrutiny.  Such a shame.

As for Montagny, I also have no sympathy for him, not one bit.  As it's been said, a professional driver, from any series, shouldn't use any stimulant during a race season.  I don't care if Kimi wants to kick back on a yacht somewhere during the winter break and smoke a few doobies, but he had better be clean as a whistle when he shows up for the first test or any kind of demo.
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: Monty on January 07, 2015, 04:43:31 PM
Quote
I guess we just have a heritage over here that when The Authorities say "Thou shalt not!," we ask "Why not?"
Well this simply isn't British, old boy! Over here, when The Authorities say "Thou shalt not!"; we say "we didn't"; "we wouldn't have" or "it wasn't us, it was the bankers".   ;)
Title: Re: Franck Montagny tests [positive for
Post by: cosworth151 on March 30, 2015, 09:41:20 PM
Franck Montagny admitted he was guilty and said he did not ask for the B sample to be tested. The FIA has given him a two year ban. The ban will end on Dec. 23, 2016.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/fia-bans-former-formula-one-driver-franck-montagny-two-years
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