GPWizard F1 Forum
F1 News & Discussions => F1 Teams => Topic started by: Irisado on November 12, 2012, 09:59:27 PM
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The full story is here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20302796).
I hope that a buyer is found, because I actually like this team, and there has to be some potential there when you consider how poorly they've performed in the opening race in Melbourne for the last two years, only to qualify for all the remaining races. That doesn't just happen by accident.
De la Rosa's also driven the wheels off that car at times this year, as it really shouldn't be outqualifying anyone, and he's managed to mix it with Marussia at several tracks.
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Sounds like a last ditch attempt to salvage something before they are forced to close the doors, if this story from Nextgen-Auto website is true. Looks likely that there will only be 11 teams on the grid next year unless Bernie is feeling generous to any would be saviour.
Before the official confirmation that HRT was for sale, it was reported by Spain’s El Confidencial on Monday that the struggling team had dismissed 32 employees, and needed a buyer before December to avoid closure.
HRT, owned by Thesan Capital since last July, swiftly confirmed that it is "in talks with a number of groups interested in buying the team".
The media statement said Thesan wants to complete a deal within weeks, adding that "the time has come for the team to continue growing with new financial backing".
The new owners would be HRT’s fourth since the team’s inception in 2009
Nextgen-Auto.com, Today.
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I hate to see the small teams go, but I think it will take a miracle to save it. None of today's indies seem to inspire the same feelings as did teams like Minardi, Jordan and Super Aguri.
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I know that an F1 team is a bigger investment than an IndyCar team, but IndyCar has had 'celebrity' owners who love racing and put money into the sport.
I see enough celebrities in those FIA race edits, surely Bernie could entice them to get involved. Who wouldn't want to sponsor a team partly owned by, say, the Beckhams?
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Who wouldn't want to sponsor a team partly owned by, say, the Beckhams?
Me.
It's the same old story of small teams not being given enough assistance by the powers that be in terms of how the funding in the sport is divided up. Yes, Formula 1 is a meritocracy, but you don't get anywhere without having a decent number of independent teams on the grid, as the sport found out in 2009. As per usual though, they're repeating the same mistakes.
For what it's worth, I think that someone will buy the team, although I have my doubts about that someone being from Spain, in view of the current financial situations there.
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Too bad, I thought they will be around around one or two year..
Though I will not be missing much, because other than being a regular count of DNF, they have not shown anything to remember..
And they would be struggling for sure, because they were always lagging behind in every way..
I thought they will push it a bit more...
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Team Schumacher?? :DntKnw:
Interesting thought.
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Bernie feels the same way about teams he does about tracks. There is always a new one ready to jump in. Why support them?
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Team Schumacher?? :DntKnw:
Interesting thought.
And there will be bombardment from Monty f it ever happens.. :DD :DD
I am sure Bernie gets something out of every deal made for the teams, so why dry up your golden egg laying swan? Bernie does not care what happens to team, he will be just pleased to have his account in offshore banks is swelling...
And at times to prove to the old F1 loyalist, he makes some comments like petrolhead..
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Bernie feels the same way about teams he does about tracks. There is always a new one ready to jump in. Why support them?
That's not the case. There was a shortage of F1 teams for years during the 2000s, and we still don't have a full grid under the current regulations. As we saw from the bidding process prior to 2010, there were not that many credible proposals, and if Hispania goes to the wall, that's two fewer seats for drivers, and it's hard enough to get into F1 with the current number of seats on offer without diminishing them.
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I agree, but Bernie doesn't. He thinks no one will miss HRT. He really doesn't care.
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>:D >:D BERNIE >:D >:D
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I agree, but Bernie doesn't. He thinks no one will miss HRT. He really doesn't care.
You are sadly correct.
I will miss them, so he's wrong about this, as he is about so many things. He's an odious character, and I'll be happy when we no longer have to put up with him. He does nothing to help even out the financial situation in F1, when he's more than able to do so.
If Hispania is sold, I just hope that whoever buys it, returns to calling it Hispania, because the HRT acronym is really awful in English.
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Wonder who will buy a team, which a bit away from the F1 heartland, and a bit away from the places, and requires substantial amount of investment to improve it to a respectable team. And given the current situation of the financial market, it will be highly unlikely to see this team running in the next season.
Initially when the team started, I was hoping a new Minardi type of team, but unfortunately it never was.
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I agree, but Bernie doesn't. He thinks no one will miss HRT. He really doesn't care.
I'm sure Bernie would love F1 to be filled with 13 competitive, well funded teams that have solid futures, extensive sponsorship and star drivers with personalities to match. It would make his job much easier.
However, an F1 team that can't make it's bills, can't qualify for races paints the entire sport with a bad brush. If HRT is flimsy, is it worth investing in Marussia, or even Sauber or Williams? (I know the answer here is 'yes', but for the people actually investing in the teams who don't know much about the sport?)
I don't want to see HRT go, but I don't want to see them infecting F1 with a sense of doom either.
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Sauber brought Petronas and Red Bull into the sports, and look where they are now. Petronas is a title holder of a team, and Red Bull have a team of its own, which just won three consecutive WCC.
Williams do have bad patches, but still they try to keep things going..
Nothing to talk about Marussia though, I have a feeling they are just expensive billboards, that runs around at 200 mph, in various racetrack of the world, whole year...
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Nothing to talk about Marussia though, I have a feeling they are just expensive billboards, that runs around at 200 mph, in various racetrack of the world, whole year...
I wouldn't write Marussia off just yet BD, they've got Pat Symonds on board now and have moved their operation into the F1 hinterland to help with recruitment of experienced staff. They are the most improved of the back marker teams this year and are only just starting to get their hands on Kers and other goodies that make competing in midfield possible. Remember also they are carrying that Cosworth lump in their car, sorry Cos but it's not really up to the job - ask Williams, and the sooner they get another power plant the sooner they will move forward.
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I agree, Marussia are sounding quite bullish for next year, and now just ahead of Caterham on results. I have a sideways interest in this team as my Dad, still an English teacher, taught Max Chilton at Ardingly school. Max has been tagged with the 'pay driver' label, and his uber-rich father has certainly fuelled his motorsport career to date. It remains to be seen how good he is (if indeed he gets Pic's place), but he had a strong finish to the GP2 season, and I'll be watching with interest for sure. With Russian money behind it, and a Russian GP coming up, I wouldn't be surpised to see them have a much better season next year.
Recent article: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104201 (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/104201)
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I hope Marussia really do well in the sports. Yeah I agree they are struggling with KERS, and Cosworth engine, and with these things sorted out, I hope they will make some great races. Although due to result, Marussia is ahead, but for me I would say Caterham is being really great this season, where they are catching up Torro Rosso.
I really hope they make a great fight, take it to next level in 2013..
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Initially when the team started, I was hoping a new Minardi type of team, but unfortunately it never was.
I had the same hope, but providing it remains an independent, I feel that it could still be. It all depends on the new owners.
I'm sure Bernie would love F1 to be filled with 13 competitive, well funded teams that have solid futures, extensive sponsorship and star drivers with personalities to match. It would make his job much easier.
I doubt that. In the past he has been in favour of three car teams, and is also on the record as saying that the people he brings to races wouldn't care if there were only sixteen cars on the grid. His attitude is one of the problems with the management of F1 in my opinion.
However, an F1 team that can't make it's bills, can't qualify for races paints the entire sport with a bad brush. If HRT is flimsy, is it worth investing in Marussia, or even Sauber or Williams? (I know the answer here is 'yes', but for the people actually investing in the teams who don't know much about the sport?)
I don't want to see HRT go, but I don't want to see them infecting F1 with a sense of doom either.
Hispania has hardly infected Formula 1 with doom and gloom, and the team has remained very positive this year, despite the problems. I think that Luis Perez Sala has done a pretty good job, all things considered, to keep the team going.
Regarding Marussia, they are improving, so I think that we'll see them move forward in terms of pace, if not grid position, next year.
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Definitely HRT did a good job, because they were lagging so much behind the chassis design in the beginning of the season, it was inevitable that they will struggle this much. And also the fact that they are not equipped with as much fund as the big teams, that could strive great performances out of the car, with barrage of updates, I think they have done a decent job. But for the fact that only decent job will not ensure your stay in the grid, and if your current owner is only concern of making quick term profit, I really wonder how much the team has the possibility of achieving the things many of their fans hope for.
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It's true that they need a more F1 oriented ownership, if that makes sense. If they could get someone who's a good business person, and a passionate F1 fan, then they would probably be able to make a step forward, but that's a big 'if'.
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I hate to put cold water in your optimism Irisado, but the reality is that if that someone with all the qualities you have mentioned walks around the paddock, he will be more interested in Force India (Though they deny their financial troubles, they are in a pretty bad mess) rather than HRT.
These days the demands are so much that is very difficult for people to keep a team afloat, let alone making it successful.
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In the past Bernie has supported the idea of customer cars. Maybe he feels that if HRT or FIF1 go under, the FIA will reconsider in order to fill the field.
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Sounds reasonable. If I was going to buy an F1 team for a bargain, I'd be looking at Force India long before Hispania. Whatever problems they've had in the boardroom, on the track they've been progressing at a good pace.
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And they could have pulled out a great win in Brazil. Because when they were leading the race they looked really worthy of winning the race. And also this team have stacked up points upto 100 without visiting the podium for single time, now that says a lot about consistency, and also a lot about their driver as well.
It was unlucky for Nico to loose his backside..
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Customer cars are a terrible idea in my view. The solution is to actually pay the teams at the back a more generous share of the revenue, as well as the teams at the front. This involves Ecclestone actually being fair in terms of how much money he takes vis à vis the teams, which we all know won't happen, as the man doesn't know the meaning of the word.
Finally, as I posted in the other thread, it is the end for Hispania, it's ignominious, and I'm very disappointed. I was going to write something of a short send off in Spanish, but I'm feeling too bitter about it at the moment, so perhaps another time.
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It depends on the definition of "customer cars." Super Agrui did quite well with Honda's year old hand-me-downs. As a rule, though, I wouldn't want to see current teams selling cars to the independents. A better idea might be for third party builders, like Dallara or Lola (if they survive) building cars to the small teams. They have the infrastructure already in place. That would leave the independents free to concentrate their time and money on running the races.
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You want Lola back in F1 cos? Bring it on baby..
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It depends on the definition of "customer cars." Super Agrui did quite well with Honda's year old hand-me-downs. As a rule, though, I wouldn't want to see current teams selling cars to the independents. A better idea might be for third party builders, like Dallara or Lola (if they survive) building cars to the small teams. They have the infrastructure already in place. That would leave the independents free to concentrate their time and money on running the races.
A good point.
I have no problem with Dallara or Lola supplying chassis. The former did that for Scuderia Italia between 1988 and 1992, while the latter did it for Larrousse in the late 1980s, and early 1990s, and for Scuderia Italia in 1993 (to spectacularly limited effect in the case of the latter). I never had an issue with that, and I still don't.
What I don't want to see is the return of hand me down chassis from the bigger teams. That's just creating monopolies, and forcing out independents as constructors in everything bar the name. As much as Super Aguri were a plucky team, they were at the mercy of Honda, and when the B team outperformed the A team, the writing was already on the wall.
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McLaren have been outperforming Mercedes, but Mercedes are still there.
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McLaren have been outperforming Mercedes, but Mercedes are still there.
That's engine supply, not chassis supply, so that's a different kettle of fish altogether. Customer engine deals actually help the midfield and smaller teams; whereas hand me down chassis cause more problems than they solve.
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:P :tease:
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McLaren have been outperforming Mercedes, but Mercedes are still there.
That's engine supply, not chassis supply, so that's a different kettle of fish altogether. Customer engine deals actually help the midfield and smaller teams; whereas hand me down chassis cause more problems than they solve.
Like allowing Vettel to shine in a Torro Rosso whilst all since have struggled you mean. ;) :D
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As long as it doesn't end up like the last Dallara (which was supposed to be the first Midland car in 2006, before Colin Kolles fell out with Dallara)...
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F1 had a long history of customer teams. Cooper sold cars to a number of drivers. Maserati and Alfa sold to privateers. Famously, Rob Walker entered Lotus cars built and maintained by the factory for Seppi Siffert, Graham Hill and Sterling Moss. Had Moss not crashed, Walker would have had Ferraris for Moss the next season.
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F1 had a long history of customer teams. Cooper sold cars to a number of drivers. Maserati and Alfa sold to privateers. Famously, Rob Walker entered Lotus cars built and maintained by the factory for Seppi Siffert, Graham Hill and Sterling Moss. Had Moss not crashed, Walker would have had Ferraris for Moss the next season.
That's certainly true, however, a modern F1 car is about sensitive aerodynamics that are updated throughout the season. No longer can a team show up with a three year old chassis, a rebuilt engine, a daring driver and hope to compete.
I'd love to see customer chassis, but I don't see how a customer team can possibly be competitive when the big teams are working with their own designs throughout the season.
(I'd suggest freezing the aero devleopment, but then the cars would be locked in as 'good' or 'bad' from day 1. Where's the fun in that? Further, the FIA contineus to try and make the rules so that aero matters less, yet the designers keep pulling out tricks that make aero matter more.)
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I think teams should be encouraged to be very distinguished and competitive, to attain that, new teams should have certain guidelines and measures by FIA, so that the HRT story does not repeat again. But I guess people like Bernie does not share my philosophy and he seems to be the ultimate man to decide about these matters.
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You can denigrate HRT as not competitive or even not worthy to be on the grid, but they started from scratch and even while occupying the back row, closed the gap to the front runners a little each year on about 10% of the budget. Those guys were racers and I applaud their efforts.
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You can denigrate HRT as not competitive or even not worthy to be on the grid, but they started from scratch and even while occupying the back row, closed the gap to the front runners a little each year on about 10% of the budget. Those guys were racers and I applaud their efforts.
That's the story in a nutshell, Lonny. :good:
Now if a team could regularly get on the podium on just 10% of the front runners budget it would call into question the whole operation of F1.
It requires money to be successful in nearly all motorsport; the most money doesn't always guarantee the top spot - but it sure helps. ;)
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You can denigrate HRT as not competitive or even not worthy to be on the grid, but they started from scratch and even while occupying the back row, closed the gap to the front runners a little each year on about 10% of the budget. Those guys were racers and I applaud their efforts.
That is why I am a bit hurt to see them go, and also bitter at the management for not paying the mechanics their due..
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Like allowing Vettel to shine in a Torro Rosso whilst all since have struggled you mean. ;) :D
In all seriousness though, that's a fair point. Vettel benefited from a customer car, and everyone went delirious over his win at Monza in 2008. Would he have won driving a chassis produced by the team, or a genuine customer chassis?
Anyway, back to Hispania, and I have to say that we need to look at this more broadly. If you look at Hispania's performance, they are nowhere near being classed as a bad Formula 1 team. They finished races, weren't always last (they beat Marussia/Virgin on merit on a number of occasions, and finished ahead of them in the constructors' championship twice), and performed miracles just to get through three seasons.
We haven't seen any genuinely disastrous, and ill conceived Formula 1 projects that actually made the entry list since the 1997 Lola fiasco, so let's not be harsh. Had the budget cap been implemented, and had the team not been run by a bank with no interest in Formula 1, then the future could have been a lot brighter.