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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Ian on June 24, 2012, 06:16:21 PM

Title: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: Ian on June 24, 2012, 06:16:21 PM
Should'nt have been naughty boys.


http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2012/6/13502.html (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2012/6/13502.html)
Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: Ian on June 24, 2012, 06:55:21 PM
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2012/6/13503.html (http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2012/6/13503.html)

And another one.
Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on June 24, 2012, 07:52:00 PM
Maldonado may have been technically at fault, but I think Hamilton was dumb to not let him go. To risk a collision so late in the race was not smart championship thinking. I'm sure Louis will totally blame Pastor, but a bit of discretion probably would have netted a 4TH rather than a DNF. As Hobbs said, you have to give a bit of room on a street circuit.
Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: John S on June 24, 2012, 08:06:27 PM

I agree with the first two, in fact I thought Vergne might have got a full race exclusion for the next race for his childish move over on Heikki.

However I can't see the justification of Pastor's penalty.  :nono: Their reasoning, 'failing to rejoin the track in a safe manner', looks a bit hollow, after all he was forced out there by Lewis who would have done better to have left him room and let him go. I'm pretty sure pastor had his front wheels ahead of Lewis at the start of that right/left section, so whatever happened to the rule giving the other car a width on track after he has got alongside, or even slightly ahead? For me racing incident at best, but Lewis chucked away some points stupidly. ::)

       

Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: F1fanaticBD on June 24, 2012, 08:08:16 PM
People, are serious? 20 second penalty for Pastor? After what he did? Can't they understand they have to penalize heavily this south american hot head? Otherwise he will ruin more races for people, and let alone his own. He needs to understand the word limitation, and if he can't he must be forced to do so.

People should not suffer for his stupidity...
Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: John S on June 24, 2012, 08:22:55 PM
People, are serious? 20 second penalty for Pastor? After what he did? Can't they understand they have to penalize heavily this south American hot head? Otherwise he will ruin more races for people, and let alone his own. He needs to understand the word limitation, and if he can't he must be forced to do so.

People should not suffer for his stupidity...

Sorry F1fan but Lewis played hardball when discretion was the best course, so it's lame to accuse only Pastor of hardball. Plenty of times earlier in his career Lewis has executed similar moves to Pastor's today, some have come off and others have ended like this one did.

Finding just how far the limits go is a part of what the best racing drivers must do, you can usually teach really fast drivers to stop crashing - whilst it's almost impossible to teach safer drivers to gain a lot of speed.

Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on June 24, 2012, 08:40:50 PM
Totally agree. Both drivers are in for some blame here, but Louis had the most to lose and he's the one who ran Pastor off the track trying to defend when he had virtually no chance of holding him off to the end of the race.
Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: cosworth151 on June 25, 2012, 03:56:01 PM
Of the three major incidents (Kobayashi, Vergne and Maldonado), I think Vergne was the least culpable. It looks like the rear end just got away from him when he fired the DRS coming out of the turn. Even Kovalainen labeled the moment a 'rookie error'. Vergne quickly apologized to Kovy and took responsibility. Yet he gets by far the most Draconian penalty. The FIA in action once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrmXbLsuSA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrmXbLsuSA)
Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on June 26, 2012, 02:36:03 AM
The FIA has improved their rules enforcement, but not much. It is still far less professional than almost any American racing series. They should appoint a group of Stewards to oversee ALL the races. That would be a first step toward consistency.
Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: John S on June 26, 2012, 09:27:13 AM
Of the three major incidents (Kobayashi, Vergne and Maldonado), I think Vergne was the least culpable. It looks like the rear end just got away from him when he fired the DRS coming out of the turn. Even Kovalainen labeled the moment a 'rookie error'. Vergne quickly apologized to Kovy and took responsibility. Yet he gets by far the most Draconian penalty. The FIA in action once again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrmXbLsuSA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrrmXbLsuSA)

It can be interpreted as a simple mistake, however it can be interpreted as a cynical intimidatory move either to stop Heikki coming back at him down the inside of the corner, or even payback to Heikki for something Vergne believes was done to him.

There was no need for Vergne to move over until he was well past, this was not a heated battle for a podium spot at a tight part of the circuit but a straight forward run past with acres of space available. If you can't drive round another car without incident on an open track at this level of motorsport you shouldn't be there.
 
The stewards appear to have have judged this as Vergne pulling a naughty boy act, otherwise why give the double penalty, :good: I still think it should be an exclusion from the next race.
   
Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: monty on June 26, 2012, 01:48:46 PM
Quote
People, are serious? 20 second penalty for Pastor? After what he did? Can't they understand they have to penalize heavily this south American hot head? Otherwise he will ruin more races for people, and let alone his own. He needs to understand the word limitation, and if he can't he must be forced to do so.

People should not suffer for his stupidity...

I could not agree more!
I keep finding myself defending Hamilton and I'm not even a fan!
Hamilton was in front, it is up to Maldonado to make a safe overtake.
He decided to overtake in a crazy place because he knew he could simply use the tarmac run-off area. If that area had been gravel he would not have tried.
Hamilton took the normal line around the corner. He was under no obligation to 'give Maldonado room'. Maldonado ran off the track and then came back on the track and straight into Hamilton. It was 100% Maldonado's fault. The guy is crazy and dangerous. The stupid thing is that Maldonado could have used DRS and easily passed Hamilton later in the lap. I think the penalty was far too lenient. He finished Hamilton's race and robbed him of good Championship points.
Title: Re: Kobayashi and Verne
Post by: F1fanaticBD on June 26, 2012, 10:21:23 PM
Thank you Monty, could not have said better myself. But for some reason FIA marshals are not very strict with Pastor. After shunting Perez in FP (Have you ever heard of shunting someone in FP) and this incident with Lewis, what else do you need to ban Pastor for at least one grand prix?

There is a line between risk and stupidity. Lewis pushed it to the risk, and he had every right to do what he did, held his line, while our Mad man Maldonado being as always stupid, simply used the run-off area to bang Lewis.
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