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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: F1fanaticBD on June 26, 2012, 10:43:44 PM

Title: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: F1fanaticBD on June 26, 2012, 10:43:44 PM

They just want to keep the tyre issue warm, and perhaps want to keep Pirelli on the edge as well..


"Cost cutting talks gathered pace over the European Grand Prix weekend, with a ban on tyre blankets among the proposals put forward to minimise the teams' spend.

Cost cutting has been on Formula One's agenda for some time, with the teams expected to agree to new regulations to limit spending by the end of the month. Over the weekend Autosport reported that a ban on tyre blankets could be implemented as a means of trimming costs over the next couple of years, with tyre supplier Pirelli willing to change its compounds if necessary.

McLaren boss Martin Whitmarsh said a ban on tyre blankets would make sense if the compounds are changed accordingly to make sure there are no safety concerns.

"You can't do it with these tyres, that's for sure," he said. "But what was suggested is that if you're going to change the tyre and go out to tender, which is something in prospect for the sport, then having noisy generators on the grid and having all the costs of tyre blankets ... you have to ask if they actually add to the show or if they get in the way of it? Providing that the temperature and the pressure range of the tyres are designed to warm-up, which they do in other formula, then it's clearly possible. We've got ourselves into a particular niche in Formula One where we all spend 300,000 on dragging blankets and generators around to make noise on the grid."

But Mercedes team principal Ross Brawn questioned the actual savings that would be made, given that cars would likely complete more running to get tyres up to temperature.

"I think you just have to look at the economies of it," he said. "If it's a sporting question that's a different matter, but if it's an economic question they're not cheap - probably an extra 200,000 for the year - but if you think of the extra mileage we'd do [to warm up the tyres], and we'd probably all have them for testing, because in testing you don't want to have to use that mileage. We'd end up buying them and using them for testing and then not be able to use them for the race. I think it's a close call whether we should or shouldn't have them.

"On the sporting side it's a different matter, cars going out after a pit stop with cold tyres and perhaps not being able to bang in a really quick lap to defend their position. That could be a different issue; it might be an interesting proposition. But I don't think on cost grounds they are very expensive bits of kit. They do save us having to do extra mileage to get the tyres up to temperature."

Mercedes driver Michael Schumacher said he sees no reason to implement a ban.

"I think cold tyres are for categories that have low power; maybe Formula Ford or Formula 3," he said. "But quite honestly Formula One, being the pinnacle of motorsport, with the power that we have, with the speed that we have ... no, I wouldn't like that idea at all, and I don't see a need or reason for doing so."

[EspnF1.com]
Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: cosworth151 on June 26, 2012, 11:16:28 PM
An extra 200,000 for the year for tire blankets? Who's buying the things for them, the Pentagon?
Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on June 27, 2012, 04:21:19 AM
They're talking about the total cost for blankets, generators to power them and the cost to drag all that equipment around to 20 races.
Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: Jericoke on June 27, 2012, 03:17:08 PM
Just store the tires in a sunbeam :)

I agree that the current tire design wouldn't allow non-warmed tires, but the sport can certainly explore the possibility of a new design that doesn't really need warmed tires. 

I suspect given the huge differences between what Bridgestone provided, and what Pirelli provided, there's a lot of interesting science and engineering in the world of high performance tires.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to find 'no warm' tires in use in the near future, with no loss in performance.
Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on June 27, 2012, 06:14:38 PM
All tires have an operating temperature that they must be warmed to in order to function. If they banned tires warmers, the tires would still have to be brought up to thew proper temperature and pressure. They would just be designed to accumulate heat faster and provide more grip while they are warming. In NASCAR and Indycar there are a few drivers who are experts on getting the most out of cold tires, you will see them passing several cars on restarts nearly every time.
Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: Jericoke on June 27, 2012, 08:09:01 PM
All tires have an operating temperature that they must be warmed to in order to function.

That's my point though.  There's no technical reason why they should have such a narrow operating range.  If Bridgestone can make a tire that lasts an entire race, and Pirelli can purposely design a tire that goes squirelly after a mystery interval, surely it's possible to create an F1 tire that has a wider operating temperature. 

Perhaps 'at temperature' it's not as good as what Pirelli has now, but that just makes racing a little more challenging, doesn't it?
Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: F1fanaticBD on June 29, 2012, 03:13:47 AM
I wonder how you can make a tyre, which will be warm for the whole race duration, and will be within the operating window without being kept by the warm blanket. Though I am sure, when this people are challenged, they have always came up with brilliant solutions, but being cost-cutting measure, should we open a new field of research and spending of money? 
Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: Scott on June 29, 2012, 07:37:28 AM
They're talking about the total cost for blankets, generators to power them and the cost to drag all that equipment around to 20 races.

I don't think so...220v power and UK standard wiring in the garages are requirements to host a race, and Bernie Air flies the equipment around per the Concorde Agreement. 

I can't remember if I saw it on YouTube or regular TV, but there was a story about the guy who does all the tire blankets.  He was a specialist in GeoThermal heating systems in the UK.   He started the tire blankets on a lark from the suggestion of a friend on one of the teams.  Once the FIA approved them, they stamped their approval on only his design (snuffed out the competition or teams doing their own).  So his hobby job took over his real job. 

I suspect if they ban them, he's probably set up for life already. 

Back to the issue, banning them on a cost cutting measure is a joke.  They may as well go after what kind of coffee the teams are using in their espresso machines, it's such a puny amount.  If they do ban them and first race of the season is a massive crash in turn 1, I don't think you'll have to look far to put the blame.  The FIA should spend more time training their race stewards and less meddling on team business.
Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: John S on June 29, 2012, 09:24:29 AM

Back to the issue, banning them on a cost cutting measure is a joke.  They may as well go after what kind of coffee the teams are using in their espresso machines, it's such a puny amount.  If they do ban them and first race of the season is a massive crash in turn 1, I don't think you'll have to look far to put the blame.  The FIA should spend more time training their race stewards and less meddling on team business.


When you are trying to cut budgets in a business or organisation everything must be up for consideration, F1 existed before tyre warmers and could do so again. Other racing series get by quite happily without tyre warmers and traditionally F1 bans artificial aids, once everyone has access to them, on the basis no gain for anyone means it's now unnecessary.

IMHO it's exactly things like tyre warmers that can be cut as they are common accross the pitlane, you can only see a real saving of basic costs in the sport if the measure is equal, and seen to be equal, on everyone. Whether it saves 200k or just 20k it's still a saving without changing the order of things amongst teams very much.

 

Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: Scott on June 29, 2012, 02:53:48 PM
Although I didn't agree with budget caps either, they've already done that.  I think it should be up to the teams how they keep the costs within that.  I would be pretty p*ssed off if someone told me I should keep our costs down by serving food on plastic plates.  I am responsible for the profit margin of MY business, nobody else.  So it should be in F1.

The FIA has NO business mandating cost cutting measures.  They can give a range to stay within, or a maximum to stay under, but they should not get involved in how, unless it is a safety issue.
Title: Re: Banning tyre blankets is a cost cutting measure
Post by: F1fanaticBD on June 30, 2012, 04:48:32 PM
It is a bit difficult put a ban on a competition where innovation and implementation of the innovation is the rule of the game. How do you make people stop trying not to be fast. How can put a prize money and tell them not to spend to get it?

They should be more concerned about keeping the hosting fees low, so that people do not have to spend a fortune to be in a grand prix. And keep the rotation policy alive so that the formula one does not become a single continent event. There tons of ways cost cutting measurement, easiest of all is to raise your revenue. So stop making joke about tyre blankets, it makes even the fans like us stupid, let alone the regulatory bodies.
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