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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Ian on October 27, 2013, 05:06:02 PM

Title: Miserable FIA
Post by: Ian on October 27, 2013, 05:06:02 PM
No sense of humour. Scroll to the bottom.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2013/10/15162.html
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: cosworth151 on October 27, 2013, 05:22:53 PM
In the Chat Room as it happened, we speculated on the FIA doing something like this. I said that it would be a really chicken sh*t thing to do even for the FIA. I stand by that statement.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Scott on October 27, 2013, 05:25:28 PM
Stupid rule.  How 'bout this for a rule.  If someone wins the championship, they can do whatever they want to with their car to please the fans and celebrate said championship.  It is completely the responsibility of the FIA or its representatives to recover the car in whatever shape they can, including replacing the bloody steering wheel. >:D >:D
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: F1fanaticBD on October 27, 2013, 05:32:12 PM
I think FIA just realized they could make money out it, because any driver winning a championship or any constructor winning the title wouldn't mind dish out 25 grand. So FIA gets to keep the money out of nowhere. Smart business plan if you ask me.

If you ask me I would have made it mandatory for the winning driver to make doughnuts in the lap, before returning to parc frame, failure to do so would have ended up being handed a reprimand. Unfortunately I don't run FIA or F1 show.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: John S on October 27, 2013, 09:49:25 PM
Stupid, stupid decision by the stewards to even get involved with making the ruling, sure donuts are technically against the rules - but then having all four wheels outside the track limits, especially lap upon lap, is against the rules, isn't it?  :confused:  ::)  Must be because no monetary penalty applies to exceeding track limits.   >:(

I guess with way the money grubbing FIA are progessing we can expect to see a new rule in the future requiring the podium drivers to pay for wasting the champagne, 1st €3k, 2nd €2k, 3rd €1k.  :P

 
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: cosworth151 on October 28, 2013, 11:20:09 AM
Maybe if Seb would have had all four wheels over the line when he did the donuts it would have been fine. It seemed like the stewards didn't care what happened out there.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Irisado on October 29, 2013, 09:12:10 PM
Vettel knew what the rules were.  He deserved to be fined, and deserved his reprimand.  Webber was reprimanded for a far less serious offence (in my opinion), so there was no way that Vettel should have been let off the hook.

Doing doughnuts like that was just unnecessary attention seeking, and then bowing down in front of his car just made him look silly.  He could have got out of his car, and showed his appreciation for it in the parc fermé.

Whether the rules in either the case of Webber or Vettel's actions are correct is a matter for debate, but consistency is very important, and based on the Webber decision, the stewards were right to reprimand Vettel.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Wizzo on October 29, 2013, 10:08:30 PM
"The ruling, known as article 43.7, clearly states that upon deployment of the chequered flag, the winning competitor must “emit a small, distorted 'happy' sound” on the radio and then proceed directly to the parc fermé where they must “put on a large watch and engage in awkward small talk with the second and third placed competitors”. The regulation goes on to state that a victorious driver is required “to say that the team did a good job in a flat monotone voice".

Crucially, article 43.7 ends with the clear directive that victorious drivers “must show no human emotion whatsoever and must not engage in any post-race activities that may endear them to Formula 1 fans”.

To avoid any future confusion an FIA spokesman confirmed that for 2014 the article will be further clarified with the following: “drivers must not, under any circumstances, appear to enjoy their jobs at all”.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: cosworth151 on October 29, 2013, 10:36:45 PM
And they must not, under any circumstances, attempt to share any happiness with the fans.

Well said, Wizzo.  :good:

I kind of liked his bowing down to the car. Just a little acknowledgement on his part of the large role that Newey's creation played in his championship.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: F1fanaticBD on October 30, 2013, 07:45:47 AM

I kind of liked his bowing down to the car. Just a little acknowledgement on his part of the large role that Newey's creation played in his championship.

Exactly my point Cossie, not only that, doing that in a country where there is a culture of such to pay homage, that makes it a lot more appreciable.

When Sebastian did the doughnuts and said in the podium "Not going to happen today" sums up for me, and as I have said that before that is why Vettel was a hero for me in the race.

And I am sure Vettel bowing down in front of the car, after winning the championship will become an iconic image of modern F1, and I am so glad that it had happened.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Scott on October 30, 2013, 08:31:16 AM
Can't remember his name, but there was a guy in NASCAR who used to do his victory lap the wrong way...which certainly surprised most everyone and could be considered pretty dangerous, but if I recall NASCAR let him do it without penalty because the fans loved it.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: cosworth151 on October 30, 2013, 11:16:37 AM
Alan Kulwicki. He called it his "Polish Victory Lap." It put the driver's side of the car towards the stands so that he could lean out and wave directly at the fans.

He was an owner/driver and won the Cup in 1992. Sadly he was killed in a plane crash in the spring of 1993.

Speaking of NASCAR, burnouts and donuts are de rigueur for race winners in that series.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Irisado on October 30, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
I kind of liked his bowing down to the car. Just a little acknowledgement on his part of the large role that Newey's creation played in his championship.

He could have done that in parc fermé.  Doing it in the way he did was just unnecessarily over-the-top attention seeking behaviour.

And I am sure Vettel bowing down in front of the car, after winning the championship will become an iconic image of modern F1, and I am so glad that it had happened.

I don't think that it will.  It's easily forgotten when compared to classic racing moments and duels from years gone by.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: John S on October 30, 2013, 01:46:58 PM
I kind of liked his bowing down to the car. Just a little acknowledgement on his part of the large role that Newey's creation played in his championship.

He could have done that in parc fermé.  Doing it in the way he did was just unnecessarily over-the-top attention seeking behaviour.


 :o  I think even unloved Seb is entitled to show off after winning his 4th title in a row, oh and the race.  :P 

There's also the old Maxim: "Might as well be hung for a sheep as a Lamb"  ;) He was going to be stuffed by the lame stupid FIA and their gutless stewards whatever he did. ::)


 



 
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Jericoke on October 30, 2013, 02:06:09 PM
I kind of liked his bowing down to the car. Just a little acknowledgement on his part of the large role that Newey's creation played in his championship.

He could have done that in parc fermé.  Doing it in the way he did was just unnecessarily over-the-top attention seeking behaviour.

And I am sure Vettel bowing down in front of the car, after winning the championship will become an iconic image of modern F1, and I am so glad that it had happened.

I don't think that it will.  It's easily forgotten when compared to classic racing moments and duels from years gone by.

Attention seeking behaviour?

His sponsors must hate it when he attracts attention!

As for being an iconic image... it's hard to have a single photo demonstrate fantastic driving.  Having a driver bow down to his car really is a special image for F1.  I can't think of any other such image from any other series.  Who'd have thought that Vettel could bring something new to a sport with such a long history?
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: monty on October 30, 2013, 05:09:12 PM
The showboating was singularly the best thing Vettel has ever done! He knew it would get attention from the anti-enjoyment police and that he would get fined (he is probably clever enough to know that there would not be an on-track penalty) and he still went ahead with some impressive doughnuts. He actually did something for the crowd! One positive point from me (against the many negative points).
However, Mrs Monty made me smile - she said if it was Webber doing that they would disqualify the car for failing ride height!  :DD
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Ian on October 30, 2013, 07:56:03 PM
 :DD  :DD  :DD
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Irisado on October 31, 2013, 11:11:09 PM
:o  I think even unloved Seb is entitled to show off after winning his 4th title in a row, oh and the race.  :P

He's no more entitled to do so than any other driver :P.  Besides, the issue is not really to do with whether he was entitled to do it, whether it was right to do it, or even whether he's an attention seeking, immature show off (that's all just opinion).  The fact is that he broke the rules and has to pay the price.

We can debate whether the rules are right, that's fair enough, but in the interests of consistency, and for years the stewards were criticised for inconsistent decisions, they had to reprimand him to be consistent with having also reprimanded Webber for what a number of people thought was an over the top penalty.  This leads me to.....

Quote
There's also the old Maxim: "Might as well be hung for a sheep as a Lamb"  ;) He was going to be stuffed by the lame stupid FIA and their gutless stewards whatever he did. ::)

The stewards are there to apply the rules.  Blame the FIA for writing them if you wish, but don't blame the stewards for following the rulebook.

Attention seeking behaviour?

His sponsors must hate it when he attracts attention!

As for being an iconic image... it's hard to have a single photo demonstrate fantastic driving.  Having a driver bow down to his car really is a special image for F1.  I can't think of any other such image from any other series.  Who'd have thought that Vettel could bring something new to a sport with such a long history?

Actually, it's pretty easy to find photos which demonstrate fantastic driving.  Classic images, such as Mansell versus Senna on the pit straight at Cataluña in 1991, and Hakkinen's great pass on Schumacher at Les Combes in the closing stages of the 2000 Belgian Grand Prix spring immediately to mind as great racing photos which, in my opinion, are far more iconic than Vettel's piece of showing off.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Jericoke on November 01, 2013, 12:20:48 AM
Actually, it's pretty easy to find photos which demonstrate fantastic driving.  Classic images, such as Mansell versus Senna on the pit straight at Cataluña in 1991, and Hakkinen's great pass on Schumacher at Les Combes in the closing stages of the 2000 Belgian Grand Prix spring immediately to mind as great racing photos which, in my opinion, are far more iconic than Vettel's piece of showing off.

I can find THOUSANDS of pictures of two F1 cars beside each other on track.  They don't automatically represent superlative driving.

You're absolutely right that there are moments in F1 that surpass anything that Vettel has done.  But it's hard to sum them up into a single instant in time.

Sometimes a picture just captures the imagination in a way 'reality' can't.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: cosworth151 on November 01, 2013, 11:09:44 AM
Quote
He's no more entitled to do so than any other driver

There are no other drivers who have won four WDCs in a row. If there ever is again, I hope they put on one hell of an on-track show after the race!

As for it being an iconic picture, I'll bet that Newey already has a very large print of it hanging on his wall.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Scott on November 01, 2013, 01:21:59 PM
Quote
He knew it would get attention from the anti-enjoyment police and that he would get fined.

The press it got, and is getting is worth far more than the fine.  Like Monty says, anyone who enforces a rule like that, when no harm done should really be called the 'anti-enjoyment police'.  I want consistent penalties for race infractions, I don't think the stewards should even be involved in anything that happens after the checker drops.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on November 02, 2013, 03:42:59 AM
+1  :good: :good: :good:
Title: Miserable FIA
Post by: vintly on November 02, 2013, 12:06:22 PM
They had to fine, as those are the rules. They levied the minimum, considering the situation. I don't see Red Bull or the paddock making a fuss, what's the issue here?
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: cosworth151 on November 02, 2013, 12:20:36 PM
It's just a very blatant example of the FIA's total disdain for the fans. The FIA brings nothing, absolutely nothing of value to motorsports. They only do damage and drain funds. The sooner some branch of the sport tells them to take a hike the better.

It could even bring money back into motorsports. For example, I'll bet I'm not the only person who would pay good money to drive the bulldozer that plows up those ridiculous FIA mandated chicanes on the Mulsanne  :yahoo:
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Scott on November 02, 2013, 12:45:53 PM
They had to fine, as those are the rules. They levied the minimum, considering the situation. I don't see Red Bull or the paddock making a fuss, what's the issue here?

I think most of us are questioning the rule itself, not the fact that they had to apply it.  First of all I don't think in the history of F1 that anyone has been injured during a victory lap, with donuts or not.  Why create the rule in the first place?  Secondly, the FIA's job is finished on the track as soon as the checker flies.  There really is no sporting reason to have them create or enforce a rule that takes place after the race has been run.  Spec the cars in Parc Ferme and that's it.  If a driver chooses to burn through a couple kg of rubber, or run out of gas because they want to do donuts, then fine them when the car doesn't spec.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: vintly on November 02, 2013, 03:08:32 PM
It's not about injury, and there is a sporting reason.

I agree with the rule - the race isn't over with the chequered flag - cars and drivers have to be weighed. It wasn't long ago that ball-bearings were being subtly rolled into the exhausts by the team to get the weight of the car back up before it was weighed - so there has to be a very strict ruling about getting the cars back to parc fermé. Hence there had to be a fine, and considering the situation they made it the minimum. Fair play to them.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Scott on November 02, 2013, 04:15:21 PM
Doing a few donuts and THEN driving to Parc Ferme gives the team no more opportunity to touch the car than driving it directly to Parc Ferme.  Of course I believe they need to strictly scrutinize the car and weigh the driver after the race (or weigh the car and scrutinize the driver  ;) ), and if doing the donuts used up enough rubber or fuel that it meant the car didn't pass weight or scrutiny, then Vettel could have DQ'd himself from the race altogether or at least picked up a grid penalty for the next race, so the risk was entirely his. 

Point being, don't make the rules spoil the show when they don't have to. 

Even though it's against the rules, somewhat dangerous and makes protecting the pit lane and equipment even that much more difficult, at Monza after the checker is waved and the cars make it back around to pit lane, the police and security step away and let the crowd surge onto the track.  It's just easier than trying to prevent it, and the fans LOVE it, not just those on the track, but I think on the TV as well.
Title: Miserable FIA
Post by: vintly on November 02, 2013, 05:10:49 PM
We did love it didn't we? The doughnuts? They were great! Everyone loved them. Super! And the only people whining seem to be online.

Sorry but I haven't heard ONE genuinely negative comment from anyone directly associated with the sport, because they respect the need for the ruling. £25K, nothing. No complaints, no spoiling, no nothin'.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: cosworth151 on November 02, 2013, 06:22:39 PM
Because they don't dare. The FIA would be handing out grid penalties and fines like trick or treat candy.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: John S on November 03, 2013, 10:28:48 AM

Sorry but I haven't heard ONE genuinely negative comment from anyone directly associated with the sport, because they respect the need for the ruling. £25K, nothing. No complaints, no spoiling, no nothin'.

Well Lewis for one has voiced his opinion.  Oh and Horner is not happy either, but then we'd expect that.

Lewis Hamilton was surprised when he heard that, after winning a fourth title in India last Sunday, Sebastian Vettel was penalised.

"He was reprimanded?" the Mercedes driver told reporters in Abu Dhabi, according to Brazil's Totalrace.

"Are you serious? That's crazy!"

Indeed, Vettel spent some of his first moments as a quadruple world champion in the FIA stewards office, because his celebratory 'donuts' broke the strict post-race parc ferme rules.

Red Bull was also fined EUR 25,000.

But "The fans loved it," Hamilton insisted. "It didn't hurt anyone, it wasn't dangerous -- I saw it on the screen and the fans were going crazy.

"It was very cool to see," he added.

Team boss Christian Horner said the FIA needs to rethink its strict rules.

"I think the stewards perhaps need to be empowered to give a little more leniency in extraordinary circumstances," he said in Abu Dhabi.

Grandprix.com, Fri 1st Nov.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: vintly on November 03, 2013, 10:43:38 AM
Fairplay, got me there John - Lewis voiced his opinion.

Storm in a teacup.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Scott on November 03, 2013, 10:51:03 AM
After thinking about it, I wonder if the real problem wasn't the donuts, but the fact that he actually intentionally turned off his car out of Parc Ferme.  That would mean that the car did not make it back to Parc Ferme on its own, and would have to be picked up by a flatbed, or somehow restarted by the team (certainly a no-no).  If he had just done the donuts and then drove to Parc Ferme, I wonder if there would have been a problem?
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: John S on November 03, 2013, 03:04:18 PM
After thinking about it, I wonder if the real problem wasn't the donuts, but the fact that he actually intentionally turned off his car out of Parc Ferme.  That would mean that the car did not make it back to Parc Ferme on its own, and would have to be picked up by a flatbed, or somehow restarted by the team (certainly a no-no).  If he had just done the donuts and then drove to Parc Ferme, I wonder if there would have been a problem?

I'm sure the FIA want's us to believe that has something to do with it but it's still bloody lame from the stewards, they have to recover cars that are stopped just over the finish line by competitors low on fuel not wanting to use more on the return to the pits. - What's the real difference?  :crazy:

Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Scott on November 03, 2013, 03:23:06 PM
Well, he did the donuts and then drove to Parc Ferme today...lets see what happens this time  ;)
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: Irisado on November 13, 2013, 03:51:24 PM
I can find THOUSANDS of pictures of two F1 cars beside each other on track.  They don't automatically represent superlative driving.

They do if you were there at the time, have seen the race on television, seen it as a repeat, or read the report, and have the picture to go with it.  It's all about context.  In context, Vettel's doughnuts were no more iconic than the sort of pictures I was referring to.

There are no other drivers who have won four WDCs in a row. If there ever is again, I hope they put on one hell of an on-track show after the race!

Schumacher won five in a row ;).  I think that what you mean is that there are no other drivers who have won four in a row starting with their first.

Regarding the debate about enforcing the rules, the stewards had no choice.  The rules have to be respected, and so they had to issue a reprimand and a fine.  If the drivers, the teams, and the fans don't like it, then they need to petition the FIA to change the rules.  The stewards are not at fault here.
Title: Re: Miserable FIA
Post by: cosworth151 on November 13, 2013, 04:09:43 PM
Ooops, I meant to say that no other driver won their first four WDCs in a row.  :-[
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