GPWizard F1 Forum

F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: John S on May 05, 2016, 09:52:49 AM

Title: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: John S on May 05, 2016, 09:52:49 AM
Shock news more about Max poaching than Daniil censure? 

 http://en.f1i.com/news/53728-confirmed-verstappen-replaces-kvyat-red-bull.html
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Steve A. on May 05, 2016, 10:14:33 AM
A bit harsh on Kvyat,  but it was probably on the cards anyway and the Russian GP was just the catalyst.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: cosworth151 on May 05, 2016, 12:12:50 PM
Max is a far better driver. He deserves the better car. Hopefully it will make the Kyvakaze think a moment before he starts playing bumper cars again.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Jericoke on May 05, 2016, 03:58:09 PM
I know that the RBR/STR relationship is relatively unique in F1 history, but have we ever had drivers trade seats mid season?  We've had replacements, and musical chairs, but have we ever had a straight swap?
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Scott on May 05, 2016, 07:37:45 PM
Might not be that much of a demotion with the Ferrari engine in it. 

I feel sorry for Kvyat, and especially any hint that it all has to do with him hitting Horner's former golden boy.  As I said in chat, what probably happened is he lost all front downforce after the first shunt and wing loss and so when he was too close the second time, he probably didn't realize he essentially only had rear brakes.

We don't see the telemetry, so simply based on early season telemetry, there could have been a very good reason to swap the drivers though - we'll never know.

Watch out for Russia to send a few drones to Austria though... ;)
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Dare on May 05, 2016, 08:38:03 PM
I don't think Kyvat is being punished but Red
Bull is trying to secure Max before Ferrari or
Mercedes nabs him.But with how easily contracts
are broken are they really locking him in as a future
star driver?
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: vintly on May 06, 2016, 10:00:14 AM
A bit harsh on Kvyat,  but it was probably on the cards anyway and the Russian GP was just the catalyst.

There it is in a nutshell.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: cosworth151 on May 07, 2016, 03:15:32 PM
Will Buxton with a few good points on Red Bull's history of sacking drivers:

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/item/129201-buxton-red-bull-chopping-block-cuts-deep
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Scott on May 07, 2016, 07:46:40 PM
Good article.  Buxton has a bit of a boner for Max though.  Personally I think Ricciardo will not get pushed too hard by Verstappen.  I agree that Kvyat's career is all but over though.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: monty on May 09, 2016, 12:17:32 PM
Although not mentioned in the article, I think there is strong evidence that Marko supports drivers that he likes (irrespective of outright talent). However, there is also evidence that Marko stops liking people very easily. I do not care either way - I'm not a fan of Kvyat or Verstappen. What I would point out is that Verstappen has possibly had more accidents than Kvyat and some of his accidents were really stupid. People say that Verstappen is a good driver but they then qualify by saying "for his age". I have not seen signs that he is a better driver than many others in the sport. He was very good but he did not 'excel' in lower ranks. I think he is there because of his Dad - which is fair enough because a lot of drivers are in the sport because of factors like money rather than talent. One clear fact is that this is another clear example of the truly awful way that Marko treats drivers - he seems to have no respect for people or their contracts!
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Scott on May 09, 2016, 12:49:19 PM
A bit harsh on Kvyat,  but it was probably on the cards anyway and the Russian GP was just the catalyst.

There it is in a nutshell.

Not quite a nutshell, it looks more like this was a move to secure Verstappen to a long term contract with the big team.  They could have lost him at the end of this season if they didn't do something right away.  Kvyat was just a pawn.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: vintly on May 09, 2016, 01:36:03 PM
A bit harsh on Kvyat,  but it was probably on the cards anyway and the Russian GP was just the catalyst.

There it is in a nutshell.

Not quite a nutshell, it looks more like this was a move to secure Verstappen to a long term contract with the big team.  They could have lost him at the end of this season if they didn't do something right away.  Kvyat was just a pawn.

Yes agreed, it wasn't just because it was on the cards for the future, there were others sniffing around. I bet they were sniffing around after his first few races last year.

The four RB / TR drivers are all incredibly good for their ages I think, it's phenomenal really. The future's bright I think.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: cosworth151 on May 10, 2016, 02:54:04 PM
Max V's fellow F1 drivers Christijan Albers, Jan Lammers and Giedo Van der Garde weigh in:

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/van-der-garde-verstappen-had-seize-red-bull-f1-opportunity
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Scott on May 10, 2016, 03:35:07 PM
I'm with Giedo...Max has a much tougher teammate than he had at STR.  Seriously doubt he'll very often get close enough to scream at the team to get Ricciardo out of his way.  ;) :D :D
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: John S on May 10, 2016, 04:08:25 PM
Although not mentioned in the article, I think there is strong evidence that Marko supports drivers that he likes (irrespective of outright talent). However, there is also evidence that Marko stops liking people very easily.

Couldn't agree more, look how Alguersuari got pushed out by Marko after 2011 season that saw him getting better and better. Apparently Jaime got in Vettel's way and held him up in a session - Marko blew his top.   
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Jericoke on May 10, 2016, 08:12:42 PM
Although not mentioned in the article, I think there is strong evidence that Marko supports drivers that he likes (irrespective of outright talent). However, there is also evidence that Marko stops liking people very easily.

Couldn't agree more, look how Alguersuari got pushed out by Marko after 2011 season that saw him getting better and better. Apparently Jaime got in Vettel's way and held him up in a session - Marko blew his top.

Even at the top, who you know matters as much as what you can do.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Irisado on May 13, 2016, 11:07:30 AM
I think that Marko has treated Kyvat in a very shoddy manner, in much the same way as he has had many an acerbic word for previous Red Bull/Toro Rosso drivers when they have fallen out of favour.  I don't like the way he operates and I don't like the way he manages drivers.  The change also really has nothing to do with Kyvat's performance at Sochi, rather it has everything to do with ensuring that Verstappen doesn't sign for another team.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 13, 2016, 03:06:34 PM
Can't see wwhat everyone else sees in Verstappen. Yes he's good, but he's also immature and hasn't really surpassed his team mate  Sainz by much so far. Marko is an idiot with an exaggerated ego. Bah!  >:D
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Steve A. on May 13, 2016, 06:28:36 PM
Marko is a rich man with very different toys and he is just playing with them. When he gets sick of it then out it goes and he gets a new one.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Dare on May 14, 2016, 05:01:27 PM
I think when that rock cost Marko is eye it also had a side effect
of a chip on his shoulder.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Irisado on May 15, 2016, 03:50:45 PM
I think that Marko has outfoxed all of us who were dubious about this decision, so I'm going to take my hat off to him and say that I've underestimated Verstappen's ability under pressure.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 16, 2016, 04:36:00 PM
One good race isn't enough for a judgement, as we can attest with Maldonado.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Scott on May 16, 2016, 09:17:56 PM
Totally agree.  I'll wait to the end of the season before I call him a mature driver.  Until now I've seen some rookie mistakes and find him too impatient and entitled.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Alianora La Canta on May 23, 2016, 10:51:46 PM
The way I heard the tale told, Max and his race engineer (Xevi Pujolar) fell out with Franz Tost over tyre choices (http://twitter.com/JRobertsF1/status/728138050463621120) on the eve of the Chinese Grand Prix, which pretty much forced Red Bull's hand. Either it had to take Max on or he'd have left (either because he'd have walked out or because Franz would have kicked him out). Red Bull decided to promote Max and had to engineer an excuse to make it happen...

In other words, Max won the race due to immaturity at the previous one. That left a sour taste in my mouth.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: John S on May 24, 2016, 09:46:40 AM
Some handy left field info there Alia. :good:   Certainly explains the departure of Xevi at precisely the time Max moves up. 

Appears Franz's job is a lot harder than we all supposed when he can't just fire mechanics...... or delinquent adolescents on the spot. :D

Wonder how the Sainz camp views this whole episode? Seems nice guys usually lose out in F1.  ::)
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Jericoke on May 24, 2016, 03:03:23 PM
The way I heard the tale told, Max and his race engineer (Xevi Pujolar) fell out with Franz Tost over tyre choices (http://twitter.com/JRobertsF1/status/728138050463621120) on the eve of the Chinese Grand Prix, which pretty much forced Red Bull's hand. Either it had to take Max on or he'd have left (either because he'd have walked out or because Franz would have kicked him out). Red Bull decided to promote Max and had to engineer an excuse to make it happen...

In other words, Max won the race due to immaturity at the previous one. That left a sour taste in my mouth.

I don't know about immaturity.  If you can't trust the people running the team, there's no sense wasting your time.  He's hardly the first race winner to quit the team that gave him his 'big break' because the team couldn't match his level.  He's just the first that actually allowed a 'promotion' (as far as I know)
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Dare on May 24, 2016, 10:42:25 PM
Tost was the reason Scott Speed left too if I remember but in that
case Tost punched him.Speed should have beat the holy crap out of him.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Alianora La Canta on May 26, 2016, 12:10:35 AM
Tost was the reason Scott Speed left too if I remember but in that
case Tost punched him.Speed should have beat the holy crap out of him.

Or Red Bull should have offered him a guaranteed race seat in return for not punching him...
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: cosworth151 on May 26, 2016, 12:17:13 PM
Speed should have beat the holy crap out of him.

If Speed beat the crap out of Todt, the only thing left would be an overpriced designer suit.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Irisado on May 26, 2016, 11:36:01 PM
One good race isn't enough for a judgement, as we can attest with Maldonado.

I agree, up to a point, but he has already demonstrated much more consistency and raw speed than Maldonado ever did.

His attitude and sulky behaviour when things go wrong do count against him, but in terms of on track performance, he's clearly right up there.
Title: Re: Verstappen takes Kyvat Red Bull F1 seat from next race
Post by: Scott on May 27, 2016, 04:31:30 PM
I predict he will be a DNF in Monaco.   ;) ;)
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
Menu Editor Pro 1.0 | Copyright 2013, Matthew Kerle