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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: monty on May 16, 2016, 10:02:33 AM

Title: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: monty on May 16, 2016, 10:02:33 AM
With my ex-racing drivers perspective (I can just about remember that far back!) as soon as I saw Rosberg's harvesting light come on I thought this is Hamilton's chance. When Rosberg forced Hamilton onto the grass I thought that Rosberg must have assumed Hamilton was going left or that he hadn't seen him - a clumsy racing incident.
Then I saw the interview with Rosberg - "I was in the wrong engine mode, I saw him coming and closed the door". To me that was almost an admission of attempted murder! When another driver is coming past you at a speed more than 20kph faster than you - you do not 'close the door'! The rules say you have to leave room of at least one car's width. It would be bad to force a competitor onto the grass but your own team mate! Unforgiveable.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Ian on May 16, 2016, 10:26:00 AM
Stewards have deemed it as a 'racing incident.'
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: J.Clark on May 16, 2016, 11:30:06 AM
I will go with the stewards first of all.

I disagree however that Nico caused it.  He made a move to the right and only one move, as Lewis closed in - he didn't fake a move to the left and then go right.  That says Lewis must have thought one of two things:  a) that Nico was faking right and would go left,  or  b) that Nico would leave him room enough, which no racing driver would do.  I blame is to be placed anywhere, it should fall completely on Lewis' shoulders, and Lewis knew it as he slid to a stop in the gravel with his face buried in his hands.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: monty on May 16, 2016, 11:37:37 AM
two points
1. he admitted on live TV that he deliberately closed the door
2. the rules say you must leave room of 1 car's width - he didn't

Before seeing his interview I accepted 'racing incident'.
However, if you have watched the interview you surely have to agree that he said, without hesitation, that he saw Hamilton coming and deliberately moved right to 'close the door'. In my opinion that isn't only poor sportsmanship, it is dangerous.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: monty on May 16, 2016, 11:47:26 AM
Not as clear as the actual interview but this summarises the facts fairly well:-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/36297948
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Irisado on May 16, 2016, 02:07:07 PM
I'm comfortable with the decision taken by the stewards.  I would say that Rosberg was slightly more responsible for the incident than Hamilton, but, at the same time, it was the first lap, so Hamilton was being a touch ambitious too early on.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: J.Clark on May 16, 2016, 02:07:28 PM
two points
1. he admitted on live TV that he deliberately closed the door
2. the rules say you must leave room of 1 car's width - he didn't

Before seeing his interview I accepted 'racing incident'.
However, if you have watched the interview you surely have to agree that he said, without hesitation, that he saw Hamilton coming and deliberately moved right to 'close the door'. In my opinion that isn't only poor sportsmanship, it is dangerous.
"Closing the door" is not against any rule to the best of my knowledge.
Leaving room of a car width applies when a car is along side. 

The closest Hamilton got to alongside was when he already had a wheel in the grass, still gaining ground on Rosberg, as his left front wheel got even with Rosberg's right rear wheel.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAJXvJMYglc

Harvesting or not, Rosberg did nothing really outside the rules.  Lewis was just a bit too aggressive, and got caught out.

I still say it is a racing incident with nobody really to blame.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: cosworth151 on May 16, 2016, 02:41:31 PM
Outstanding commentary. A good catch by Ant about the switch. I remember thinking at the time that Nico was trying the old "Schumacher Chop."
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Jericoke on May 16, 2016, 02:49:56 PM
I will go with the stewards first of all.

I disagree however that Nico caused it.  He made a move to the right and only one move, as Lewis closed in - he didn't fake a move to the left and then go right.  That says Lewis must have thought one of two things:  a) that Nico was faking right and would go left,  or  b) that Nico would leave him room enough, which no racing driver would do.  I blame is to be placed anywhere, it should fall completely on Lewis' shoulders, and Lewis knew it as he slid to a stop in the gravel with his face buried in his hands.

I'm with you on this.  If blame MUST be issued, then Hamilton acted rashly.  However, if punish drivers every time they make a risky move, the sport will become dull.  As long as the move is made in 'good faith' and it's clear there was a chance of success, then have at it.

In the past we know that Nico would have pulled up.  I wonder if Lewis was counting on that.  On that score, Nico comes out the 'winner' in this crash, because Lewis is going to have to think twice about being aggressive with his teammate.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: monty on May 16, 2016, 03:30:21 PM
I know this is a case of 'agreeing to disagree'
But my final comments relate only to facts -
1. Hamilton was closing at well over 20kph on the severely slow Rosberg - his choices were; go right, go left, brake or crash into the back of Rosberg. No racing driver would brake - ever!
2. Everyone could see (confirmed by all of the racing driver pundits) that Hamilton's wing was in front of Rosberg's rear wheel when Rosberg turned right to 'close the door'. Therefore, the rule of leaving one car width was broken.
3. Rosberg was going slow due to his own error - he knew that. He also knew (by his own admission) that his team mate was overtaking him. He deliberately risked Lewis' life and then thought he could just carry on.

What people seem to be ignoring is that 'closing the door' on a car doing well over 100mph is potentially deadly - even if I did accept that it didn't break a rule!
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 16, 2016, 04:26:30 PM
And how many times has Lewis "Closed the door" on Nico? Nico always took action to avoid Lewis. I said not too long ago that I wished Nico would stop dodging at least once. This is not exactly what I had in mind, but Lewis will think twice about squeezing Nico again.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: monty on May 16, 2016, 04:29:34 PM
Quote
And how many times has Lewis "Closed the door" on Nico?
on a very fast straight where the outcome could be deadly? The answer is exactly 'never'.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 16, 2016, 04:33:47 PM
No, usually at corner exit where Nico could only back off or crash. He always backed off. This time he closed the door and LEWIS chose crash.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: monty on May 16, 2016, 04:53:49 PM
Quote
No, usually at corner exit where Nico could only back off or crash. He always backed off. This time he closed the door and LEWIS chose crash.
I'm not going to win this one with you, am I?
Just one final fact - Hamilton was already alongside Rosberg so he had no choice in the matter. He did try really hard to avoid a crash which was probably his biggest mistake. If he had held his line and touched Rosberg perhaps Rosberg would have steered left and stopped such a major incident. However, he moved away from Rosberg, went fully on the grass and at that speed he just became a passenger. It was still an accident that Rosberg could easily have avoided.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Jericoke on May 16, 2016, 06:02:06 PM
Quote
No, usually at corner exit where Nico could only back off or crash. He always backed off. This time he closed the door and LEWIS chose crash.
I'm not going to win this one with you, am I?
Just one final fact - Hamilton was already alongside Rosberg so he had no choice in the matter. He did try really hard to avoid a crash which was probably his biggest mistake. If he had held his line and touched Rosberg perhaps Rosberg would have steered left and stopped such a major incident. However, he moved away from Rosberg, went fully on the grass and at that speed he just became a passenger. It was still an accident that Rosberg could easily have avoided.

How much visibility is there in an F1 car?  I know a road car has awful visibility in the position that Hamilton was in.  I can't imagine a HANS helmet and those flimsy mirrors allow a judgement of a few centimeters.  But they're elite drivers, so maybe it is reasonable for them to know how many cm there are between their rear wheels and the front wing of a competitor.

As you point out, Nico's admission seems to pin blame on him, however I suspect that everyone at Mercedes was sticking to a script agreed to in the 'treehouse', so I wouldn't take any of it at face value.  Muddying the waters to eliminate a third reprimand for Lewis would be a goal of the discussions.

Many modern road cars have 'blindspot' warnings.  If this is truly a dangerous situation, then it would be a trivial matter to install similar devices on an F1 car.  As both drivers are automatically informed of the potential danger, the rules can be codified for who has the right of way in this scenario.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: John S on May 16, 2016, 07:22:42 PM
With my ex-racing drivers perspective (I can just about remember that far back!) as soon as I saw Rosberg's harvesting light come on I thought this is Hamilton's chance. When Rosberg forced Hamilton onto the grass I thought that Rosberg must have assumed Hamilton was going left or that he hadn't seen him - a clumsy racing incident.
Then I saw the interview with Rosberg - "I was in the wrong engine mode, I saw him coming and closed the door". To me that was almost an admission of attempted murder! When another driver is coming past you at a speed more than 20kph faster than you - you do not 'close the door'! The rules say you have to leave room of at least one car's width. It would be bad to force a competitor onto the grass but your own team mate! Unforgiveable.

Totally agree with you Monty.

Another reason I think this is unforgivable from Rosberg is that by taking the extreme right hand side as he did he's completely off the racing line. Carrying correct speed he would have trouble making the approaching corner properly without moving back across the track - which would be illegal of course as he had already moved.

I reckon the Stewards are just reluctant to get involved in the team rivalry at Merc for whatever reason. In fact usually they tend to ignore any shunts involving teammates in the first couple of laps of a GP.

They intervened later in the race when K Mag biffed Palmer in the sister Renault, so perhaps it's only the big names/top teams that they avoid passing judgement on.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: J.Clark on May 16, 2016, 08:01:05 PM
I have to challenge one point you seem stuck on Monty.
You say Hamilton was along side of Rosberg.
As close as he ever gets to being "along side" is at 1:22 in the video I posted - left front to right rear wheels - at which point, Hamilton is already right wheels in the grass.  That means that Rosberg may have known he was moving up there, but never saw him, and consequently saw no need to give room.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Scott on May 16, 2016, 09:02:13 PM
With my ex-racing drivers perspective (I can just about remember that far back!) as soon as I saw Rosberg's harvesting light come on I thought this is Hamilton's chance. When Rosberg forced Hamilton onto the grass I thought that Rosberg must have assumed Hamilton was going left or that he hadn't seen him - a clumsy racing incident.
Then I saw the interview with Rosberg - "I was in the wrong engine mode, I saw him coming and closed the door". To me that was almost an admission of attempted murder! When another driver is coming past you at a speed more than 20kph faster than you - you do not 'close the door'! The rules say you have to leave room of at least one car's width. It would be bad to force a competitor onto the grass but your own team mate! Unforgiveable.

Totally agree with you Monty.

Another reason I think this is unforgivable from Rosberg is that by taking the extreme right hand side as he did he's completely off the racing line. Carrying correct speed he would have trouble making the approaching corner properly without moving back across the track - which would be illegal of course as he had already moved.


Yeah, I'm jumping on this side of the fence as well.  I thought the leave a car width was actually just the proper thing to do period, rule or no rule.  Moving in front of a car is one thing, but considering the speed differential in this case, it was dangerous not to leave Hamilton an option.  Hamilton was trying to ride the line to keep at least two tires with traction, but couldn't quite thread the needle that was left. 

I'm not a fan of either driver, and hope they take each other out of every race left this season which will bring us exciting racing between RBR and Ferrari, but I get the feeling Rosberg has no intention of losing the championship this season and will do anything to win it, if that means sacrificing his own car to take out Hamilton, then so be it. 

I don't really see how the Merc management responded the way they did.  The incident when Nico "accidentally" cut Lewis rear tire sent them ballistic, yet in this case Toto sees no fault?  Wow...  I would have thought at the very least they would get a tongue licking like Dennis used to - race as much as you like as long as you don't take each other out.  As tensions rise, they might take a different tune.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 16, 2016, 10:25:38 PM
Here's my last word, Lewis car is equipped with the best brakes money can buy. When he saw Nico move he could have slowed. Lots of drivers in similar situations have done so. But Lewis has always been super aggressive so he went for it, even though going on the grass is really dumb. He had as much ability to avoid a collision as Nico and he chose to go for the win just like Nico. I don't like either of them much but it seems a lot of people are always ready to give Lewis a pass and hang Nico out to dry.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Andy B on May 17, 2016, 12:10:11 AM
Nico admitted he saw Lewis coming and made an aggressive move to close him off but that was too late Nico had made a mistake and was trying to recover the situation and that included pushing Lewis off the road. All manoeuvres should be without endangering other drivers Nico ignored that so is he getting desperate?
Lewis approaching at 170mph did not have time to wait to make a decision its all spur of the moment as to which side to go he chose right as at the time there was more room.
We've all heard the cry "There's not enough overtaking in F1" now when Lewis is doing just that people are saying he should not have are what they is he should have braked? Its racing and we want to see drivers race but it has to be fair I can recall Lewis chopping Nico but not putting him onto the grass causing an accident.
I know we all have different views but the majority of pundits are saying Nico should have left room in which case Nico was then at fault.

Has Nico been signed yet? Maybe if not he may not?
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: monty on May 17, 2016, 08:43:01 AM
Possibly some of the differing views are slightly coloured by which driver is favoured by the correspondent. I am not a fan of either driver - I think they have both forgotten just how lucky they are to be driving what is currently the best car in the best team. That said, I hate poor sportsmanship especially when it endangers life. This is not the first time Rosberg has carried out a manoeuvre that was simply an attempt to force Hamilton out of the race/qualifying/pole position lap, etc. Yes I know Hamilton has made some very aggressive overtakes, but they were at least legitimate racing moves. My last words on this are:-
> Hamilton was already alongside Rosberg before Rosberg 'closed the door'. I still have the race recording and if I was clever enough I would put the various views showed by Sky here on the forum to prove the fact. As I am not clever, I will simply point attention to what all of the racing driver pundits have said "Hamilton was clearly alongside Rosberg before Rosberg moved".
> Rosberg was way off the racing line to make it difficult for Hamilton (fair enough) but when he saw Hamilton had found enough space on the right he deliberately forced him off the track - breaking the one car's width rule, plus it was stupid and dangerous
> Rosberg was a sitting duck, travelling over 20kph slower than Hamilton. He knew that Hamilton could pass him easily and he should have accepted it.
> Hamilton was travelling so much faster he had to pass (or crash in the back of Rosberg). He decided to pass on the right - the obvious side because he had every reason to believe that Rosberg would be going left (the correct racing line).
> Rosberg could easily have avoided the accident by simply keeping to the racing line
> Rosberg could have said "I screwed up, like an absolute amateur I had put the car in the wrong engine mode, I ended up going incredibly slowly and while trying to put the car into the correct mode I got distracted and didn't see Hamilton". However, he didn't try to put a more positive spin on his own stupidity. Instead he said "the car was in the wrong mode we will have to investigate this", (trying to make it sound like somehow it was someone else that was to blame), "I saw Hamilton so I closed the door". In other words, it was a deliberate act to force his own team mate onto the grass - an act which at those speeds could have had deadly consequences. In all conscience I could never defend such an act under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: monty on May 17, 2016, 08:54:04 AM
This is the work of someone else but I thought it was brilliant!
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: cosworth151 on May 17, 2016, 12:09:25 PM
I think it was Fangio who first said, "You can't win a race on the first lap, but you can certainly loose one." Toto (or Dr. Z) should make Nico write that on the chalk board 100 times.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Scott on May 17, 2016, 06:46:49 PM
JYS has weighed in on the debate and throws the blame solidly at Hamilton, and even chided him on whipping his steering wheel out of the car in frustration.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-3593640/Lewis-Hamilton-disciplined-Mercedes-Nico-Rosberg-crash-says-Sir-Jackie-Stewart.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

There are not very many times I tend to disagree with anything Jackie has to say, but this is surely one of them.  In my eyes there were two errors made, and both by Nico.  1st of all, he messed up his race settings, which if he hadn't, Lewis would never have had a chance at that point, and no accident would have taken place.  The second mistake was judgemental in that he, for some reason, thought he could simply block Lewis after Nico took away Lewis's 1st position one turn earlier.  Simply by being a long time friend and competitor, he must have known Lewis wouldn't simply brake.

The post race interview of Nico below was cringe worthy to watch.  First he lies when he said he wasn't distracted when the in car camera has him clearly paying attention to his steering wheel while his car slows.  If that's not distracted from the job of racing, I'm not sure what is.  Then he says "WE" are trying to find out why his setting was wrong...why not just stand up and admit you blew the setting?  Throughout the interview he says he was gutted over and over again, yet barely mentions the effect the incident had on the team - only looking out for himself.  And finally, he behaves like a child caught in a lie when she asks him again about who's fault and the best he can come up with is that he will accept the steward's ruling.  Ah, it just made me sick to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tx0uFW1fLE

But as I said before, I hope these dirty tricks go on the whole season if it means we will have edge of your seat racing in more races between RBR and Ferrari.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Jericoke on May 17, 2016, 08:30:29 PM
JYS has weighed in on the debate and throws the blame solidly at Hamilton, and even chided him on whipping his steering wheel out of the car in frustration.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-3593640/Lewis-Hamilton-disciplined-Mercedes-Nico-Rosberg-crash-says-Sir-Jackie-Stewart.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

There are not very many times I tend to disagree with anything Jackie has to say, but this is surely one of them.  In my eyes there were two errors made, and both by Nico.  1st of all, he messed up his race settings, which if he hadn't, Lewis would never have had a chance at that point, and no accident would have taken place.  The second mistake was judgemental in that he, for some reason, thought he could simply block Lewis after Nico took away Lewis's 1st position one turn earlier.  Simply by being a long time friend and competitor, he must have known Lewis wouldn't simply brake.

The post race interview of Nico below was cringe worthy to watch.  First he lies when he said he wasn't distracted when the in car camera has him clearly paying attention to his steering wheel while his car slows.  If that's not distracted from the job of racing, I'm not sure what is.  Then he says "WE" are trying to find out why his setting was wrong...why not just stand up and admit you blew the setting?  Throughout the interview he says he was gutted over and over again, yet barely mentions the effect the incident had on the team - only looking out for himself.  And finally, he behaves like a child caught in a lie when she asks him again about who's fault and the best he can come up with is that he will accept the steward's ruling.  Ah, it just made me sick to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tx0uFW1fLE

But as I said before, I hope these dirty tricks go on the whole season if it means we will have edge of your seat racing in more races between RBR and Ferrari.

I think given the difference in opinion both here and in the F1 commentator realm, that the Stewards got it right by not assigning blame.  It's a bit of a coward's way out, but if we can't agree, it seems reasonable that they can't agree either.

I'm convinced that Nico took the blame in the 'treehouse', and this interview is more or less him trying to cover for Lewis so he doesn't get a reprimand.  That's some solid team playing to look like an idiot on camera.  Lewis owes Nico big time for that.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Dare on May 18, 2016, 12:51:54 AM
Yea Jeri and Hamilton owed Dennis and Mclaren for all he has now and
we show how he showed his gratitude there didn't we.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Andy B on May 18, 2016, 10:03:18 AM
Yea Jeri and Hamilton owed Dennis and Mclaren for all he has now and
we show how he showed his gratitude there didn't we.

Everyone said Lewis was wrong to leave McLaren but if he had stayed there he would not have the second and third world titles and I bet if Alonso was honest he regrets going back to them.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: monty on May 18, 2016, 10:36:59 AM
Quote
JYS has weighed in on the debate and throws the blame solidly at Hamilton

I believe this comment was made almost immediately after the incident. Hopefully now JYS has seen all of the evidence he would change his opinions. Having said this, JYS has a history of attacking Hamilton and favouring Rosberg - the press has delighted in asking Hamilton about some of the wild accusations JYS has levelled at him. For some reason Jackie really doesn't seem to like Lewis.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Jericoke on May 18, 2016, 03:31:59 PM
Yea Jeri and Hamilton owed Dennis and Mclaren for all he has now and
we show how he showed his gratitude there didn't we.

I think that Hamilton repaid anything he owed Dennis.  An amazing rookie season, a WDC.  I never felt like Hamilton betrayed McLaren.  Disappointed, sure, but it's not like he broke a contract, or bad mouthed them after he left.

I'm sure when Lewis was 14 he never imagined he could ever rise higher than McLaren (except Ferrari, of course).  It's still a great story, would love to see more of that in F1.  The Red Bull driving programme is a meat grinder, and most other young drivers are getting their shot because of financial backing.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Scott on May 18, 2016, 03:45:04 PM
No no Jeri.  There was more to it than that.  Lewis had a hand in the entire Dennis Whitmarsh falling out, and I believe he owes Ron Dennis far more than he contributed to Mclaren.  Sponsoring and supporting him for more than 5 years before he was ready to take on the Mclaren seat, plus Lewis had a little something to do with the Alonso departure, which cost the team a boatload of money at the end of the day, along with a tarnished reputation. 

In my opinion Lewis owes Mclaren his entire career.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Jericoke on May 18, 2016, 06:08:04 PM
No no Jeri.  There was more to it than that.  Lewis had a hand in the entire Dennis Whitmarsh falling out, and I believe he owes Ron Dennis far more than he contributed to Mclaren.  Sponsoring and supporting him for more than 5 years before he was ready to take on the Mclaren seat, plus Lewis had a little something to do with the Alonso departure, which cost the team a boatload of money at the end of the day, along with a tarnished reputation. 

In my opinion Lewis owes Mclaren his entire career.

Obviously we can debate the minutiae, but any trouble between Hamilton and Alonso I would stick on Fernando, he was supposed to be the veteran helping the rookie.  Even if Lewis did everything 100% wrong, Alonso was the one who sulked to the media and left.

The McLaren team that Lewis left wasn't the team that he'd joined.  If they truly were responsible for his career, wouldn't it be a betrayal to throw it away just to stick by a team in chaos?  There are some drivers who can save a team, but Hamilton is not one of those.  Staying with McLaren wouldn't have helped them, nor would it have helped him.  It probably would have hurt them both.  We've seen other teams hang onto drivers who were a poor fit and suffer for it.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Scott on May 18, 2016, 07:20:54 PM
Obviously we can debate the minutiae, but any trouble between Hamilton and Alonso I would stick on Fernando, he was supposed to be the veteran helping the rookie.  Even if Lewis did everything 100% wrong, Alonso was the one who sulked to the media and left.

The McLaren team that Lewis left wasn't the team that he'd joined.  If they truly were responsible for his career, wouldn't it be a betrayal to throw it away just to stick by a team in chaos?  There are some drivers who can save a team, but Hamilton is not one of those.  Staying with McLaren wouldn't have helped them, nor would it have helped him.  It probably would have hurt them both.  We've seen other teams hang onto drivers who were a poor fit and suffer for it.

You're right, we can argue the details for ages, but I think it is fair to say that Hamilton had a hand in those changes at Mclaren.  I think it is also fair to say that without Dennis's support from the tender age of 14, it is highly unlikely that Hamilton would have made it to F1 on his own.  Simply based on that, I would say he still owes Mclaren far more than he has contributed.  IMHO
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Bells on May 21, 2016, 04:13:34 PM
When truly good racing drivers race, they know the dangers and show each other respect.  They do not deliberately run each other off the track and, of course, this is not the first time Rosberg has done this to Hamilton.  Although Rosberg is happy to do it to Lewis, it appears he is not happy when Lewis does it back?  They are racing, Rosberg made the pass on Lewis and Lewis didn't run into him - he showed respect with intent to pass fairly.  The accident happened because Rosberg showed no fairness in his driving, win by any means?  Lewis was trying to avoid contact but Rosberg knew what he was running Lewis into - grass and wall; surely he did not expect Lewis to break and let him in as if it were a main road junction when he knew he was slower at that time?   I will have to re-check the rules because I thought such manoeuvres were not legal off the racing line, which they most blatantly were.  Even so, it may be right to protect your line but is it right to cause such a dangerous accident that could put lives in danger and by only sheer luck by being off the racing line, no other vehicles were involved.  To me it shows just how desperate Rosberg is and what lengths he is prepared to go to, to beat Lewis.  If it had been Lewis who made this manoeuvre, what would his punishment have been I wonder?  So in response to post; I agree, as does every other person I have spoken to which is a large amount of people, it was definitely Rosberg's fault; I believe caused by his desperation to keep Lewis at bay because he knows when Lewis is in front and he has a good car beneath him, Rosberg cannot get by him. 
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: F1fanaticBD on May 21, 2016, 06:28:45 PM
I see this incidence as racing, because a driver thought there was a gap where he could make the move, while the other one in front thought he had to defend his position. Either of them could have backed off, they would have a whole race to fight for, but instead none of them did it, and inevitably a collision happened.

Had Rosberg closed the door if Lewis was along side him, surely it would have been deemed as dangerous and he would have been penalized. But Lewis was not running alongside him, Lewis was behind, and had Lewis dabbed at the break before committig himself for the gap, he could be still in the race. No one can blame Lewis for going for it, but it would be harsh to put the blame solely on the Rosberg shoulder.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 22, 2016, 12:24:45 AM
The much idolized Senna won his first WDC by quite deliberately crashing into Prost at Suzuka. He said he would do it and freely admitted it after. Yet he kept his WDC and is widely regarded by those newer to the sport as the best ever (though not by me). Though I feel that Nico was legitimately protecting his line, if one of the best ever can defend his WDC by deliberately causing a crash, why can't Nico?
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: Andy B on May 22, 2016, 01:36:30 AM
I agree with Ik to a point, Nico is not the first to do it and besides Senna/Prost there's Schumacher/Hill and probably more so not being penalised does not make it right and maybe the governing bodies decided to let Mercedes sort it in house whereas if it had been two teams rather than one I feel the outcome would have been quite different especially considering some of the things drivers have recently been penalised for.
Title: Re: Rosberg's fault - and it was dangerous!
Post by: F1fanaticBD on May 22, 2016, 07:03:59 PM
The much idolized Senna won his first WDC by quite deliberately crashing into Prost at Suzuka. He said he would do it and freely admitted it after. Yet he kept his WDC and is widely regarded by those newer to the sport as the best ever (though not by me). Though I feel that Nico was legitimately protecting his line, if one of the best ever can defend his WDC by deliberately causing a crash, why can't Nico?

Senna did deliberately crashed into Prost in 1990 season, to won his second WDC, because the year before Prost was rewarded for doing exactly the same thing in the same track, and Senna was penalized for one of the most ridiculous reasons I have ever came across. What Prost did to Senna in the Casio chicane would make look Rosberg an angel. I am not defending Senna, I am just laying out the circumstances why and how Senna got away with hitting his rival more than 100mph and walk away as winner. If the incident in '89 had not happened, more likely the '90 would have never occured. But I do agree with Andy that the governing body has let go such incidents time after time for this reason or another.
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