GPWizard F1 Forum

F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Dare on April 28, 2017, 12:46:28 AM

Title: Russian GP
Post by: Dare on April 28, 2017, 12:46:28 AM

Put this tgether in a rush so bear with me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm7YA3p8TJI


3 GP's and 3 Mercedes wins on this Tilke circuit.Look for
Putin to make his usual race appearance.

1) Origins
The first Russian Grand Prix was technically held in 1913 in Saint Petersburg and won by Georgy Suvorin. It was abandoned by the outbreak of World War 1, and was never restarted.

2) Wins
In the ‘modern era’ of Formula One, Lewis Hamilton has been the only winner in both 2014 and 2015. Over the four Grand Prix it has been Mercedes which has only ever won in Russia and has been the home of the confirmation of winning the World Championships for the last two seasons.

3) Location
Sochi wasn’t the first location looked at for a Russian Grand Prix in the modern era. A number of locations around Moscow were initially favoured including the ‘Pulkovo Ring’, near one of the major airports for Moscow, Nagatino Island and the now-built Moscow Raceway.

4) Hungary
Despite trying to get a race held in Russia, it was Hungary who were the first to hold a Formula One race behind the Iron Curtain. It has been on the calendar since 1986.

5) Olympic Connections
It isn’t the first track to have connections to the Olympic Games. The Gilles Villeneuve circuit in Montreal is held at the home of Rowing when Montral hosted the games, along with the famous Rio circuit which has now been built on for the 2016 Olympics.

Laps: 53 laps
Start time: 15:00hrs local / 13:00 BST / 14:00 CET

Grid advantage

Pole position is located on the left side of the track, on the racing line. There is more grip available on this section of track, but a fast-starting car on the inside can use the flat-out right-hander at Turn One to muscle ahead before the braking point for Turn Two.

DRS

There are two DRS zones, on the approaches to turns Two and 13. The activation point for the first DRS zone is on the apex of Turn One; the second DRS zone winds its way right-handed through turns 11 and 12. Both zones offer good overtaking opportunities.


Safety car

66 per cent, which is high. There have been Safety Car periods in two of the three Russian Grands Prix to date, largely caused by the lack of run-off around the lap. When there’s an accident, there’s usually a Safety Car or Virtual Safety Car period, while the debris gets cleared away.

Watch out for...

Turn Three. This 180-degree left-hander will be flat-out in qualifying and the race this year, giving the drivers more lines and overtaking opportunities. Expect to see cars running two-a-breast through here as drivers seek the inside line for Turn Four.

What makes this race interesting...

The long tyre life and lack of strategy options mean overtaking has to be done on-track. Turns Two and 13 are the main overtaking opportunities, but expect to see action into Turn Four this year as well.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Dare on April 28, 2017, 01:33:00 AM
Speed bumps have been added to stop corner cutting

http://www.planetf1.com/news/speed-bumps-added-to-sochis-turn-2/
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: J.Clark on April 28, 2017, 11:26:26 AM
Good job for something quickly put together.  Thanks.   :good:
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on April 28, 2017, 02:19:16 PM
Haas has switched from Brembo to Carbon Industries brakes. The CI brakes have longer pedal travel than the Brembos. Grosjean still isn't happy.

Vandoorne had another Honda power unit give up the ghost on him. Looks like he'll get a 15 place ding on the grid.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: J.Clark on April 28, 2017, 02:51:27 PM
FFP is done:
1. Sebastian Vettel   GER   Ferrari - Ferrari   1m 34.120s
2. Kimi Raikkonen   FIN   Ferrari - Ferrari   1m 34.383s
3. Valtteri Bottas   FIN   Mercedes - Mercedes   1m 34.790s
4. Lewis Hamilton   GBR   Mercedes - Mercedes   1m 34.829s
5. Max Verstappen NED   Red Bull - TAG   1m 35.540s
6. Daniel Ricciardo AUS   Red Bull - TAG   1m 35.910s
7. Felipe Massa   BRA   Williams - Mercedes   1m 36.261s
8. Nico Hulkenberg   GER   Renault - Renault   1m 36.329s
9. Kevin Magnussen DEN   Haas-Ferrari   1m 36.506s
10. Sergio Perez   MEX   Force India-Mercedes   1m 36.600s
11. Esteban Ocon   FRA   Force India-Mercedes   1m 36.654s
12. Fernando Alonso   ESP   McLaren-Honda   1m 36.765s
13. Jolyon Palmer   GBR   Renault - Renault   1m 36.771s
14. Romain Grosjean FRA   Haas-Ferrari   1m 37.039s
15. Carlos Sainz   ESP   Toro Rosso-Renault   1m 37.083s
16. Stoffel Vandoorne   BEL   McLaren-Honda   1m 37.125s
17. Daniil Kvyat   RUS   Toro Rosso-Renault   1m 37.300s
18. Pascal Wehrlein   GER   Sauber - Ferrari   1m 37.441s
19. Lance Stroll   CAN   Williams - Mercedes   1m 37.747s
20. Marcus Ericsson   SWE   Sauber - Ferrari   1m 37.819s

With the prancing horses at the top of the time sheet, it looks like there may be another multi-team challenge for the championships.

Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Jericoke on April 28, 2017, 03:07:08 PM
Vandoorne had another Honda power unit give up the ghost on him. Looks like he'll get a 15 place ding on the grid.

I forget how the rules work.  Does he have to carry those grid drops forward if doesn't qualify in the top 5? 

('If'    :DD )
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: monty on April 28, 2017, 03:12:37 PM
The Mercedes looked like a real handful on UltraSofts. On Soft tyres the Mercedes looked much better than the Ferrari. However, based on both free practice sessions it looks like the 2 manufacturers and all 4 drivers are going to be really close in the race. I assume that for Qualifying, Mercedes will have an engine setting capable of leaving the Ferrari cars in their wake. However, Bottas was good at Sochi last year so he could give Hamilton a bit of a scare!
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on April 28, 2017, 04:31:46 PM
Max stopped on track in FP2. The on-board didn't have any smoke or nasty noises, it seemed to just cut off.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Ian on April 29, 2017, 11:10:10 AM
Bit of a headscratcher for pole here, Lewis looks out of it but you can never rule him out.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: J.Clark on April 29, 2017, 11:31:44 AM
Here is how they stacked up this morning in FP-3:
1.  Vettel      Ferrari   1m 34.001
2.  Raikkonen      Ferrari    1m 34.338
3.  Bottas      Mercedes    1m 34.364
4.  Hamilton      Mercedes    1m 34.542
5.  Verstappen    Red Bull    1m 35.452
6.  Massa      Williams      1m 35.471
7.  Hulkenberg      Renault    1m 35.662
8.  Ricciardo    Red Bull    1m 35.830
9.  Sainz      Toro Rosso   1m 37.164
10. Magnussen    Haas    1m 36.619
11. Stroll      Williams   1m 36.649
12. Ocon      Force India   1m 36.676
13. Kvyat      Toro Rosso   1m 36.846
14. Alonso      McLaren   1m 36.869
15. Perez      Force India   1m 36.962
16. Grosjean    Haas    1m 37.164
17. Vandoorne      McLaren   1m 37.182
18. Ericsson      Sauber    1m 37.503
19. Wehrlein      Sauber    1m 37.657
20. Palmer      Renault    No Time
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on April 29, 2017, 03:58:11 PM
Ferrari gets its first front row lockout since Magny-Cours 2008. Seb P1, Kimi P2, Bottas P3 & Lewis P4.

Haas has changed back to Brembos for Quali. Grosjean dead last in Q1, complaining loudly about his cae. His team mate K-Mag was too busy driving to complain, finishing 7 places and over a second ahead of the Frenchman in the first session.

Wehrlein & Palmer both spin at the end of Q1, bringing out the yellows.

Palmer has a new tub. an exhaust problem overheated his old one & cooked some of the resin out of it.

1. Sebastian Vettel (Ger) Ferrari

2. Kimi Raikkonen (Fin) Ferrari

3. Valtteri Bottas (Fin) Mercedes

4. Lewis Hamilton (Gbr) Mercedes

5. Daniel Ricciardo (Aus) Red Bull - TAG Heuer

6. Felipe Massa (Bra) Williams-Mercedes

7. Max Verstappen (Ned) Red Bull - TAG Heuer

8. Nico Huelkenberg (Ger) Renault

9. Sergio Perez (Mex) Force India - Mercedes

10. Esteban Ocon (Fra) Force India - Mercedes

11. Lance Stroll (Can) Williams-Mercedes

12. Daniil Kvyat (Rus) Toro Rosso - Renault

13. Kevin Magnussen (Den) Haas - Ferrari

14. Carlos Sainz Jr (Spa) Toro Rosso - Renault

15. Fernando Alonso (Spa) McLaren

16. Jolyon Palmer (Gbr) Renault

17. Pascal Wehrlein (Ger) Sauber - Ferrari

18. Marcus Ericsson (Swe) Sauber - Ferrari

19. Romain Grosjean (Fra) Haas - Ferrari

20. Stoffel Vandoorne (Bel) McLaren

This includes Vandoorne's grid penalty.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Irisado on April 29, 2017, 05:26:05 PM
I didn't think that Hamilton would take pole this time, and I was right with one of my predictions for a change.  He seems less focused than usual this weekend and is getting flustered out on track, such as with the incident with Hulkenberg and locking up yesterday.  Ferrari's pace was impressive, but I still wonder whether Hamilton lost out through his own erratic Q3 laps, rather than the Mercedes not quite being able to match Ferrari.

Massa's performance stood out, Force India looks solid again, and Hulkenberg put in a good lap in the Renault.  McLaren, meantime, had another disaster, and I cannot figure out Haas and Grosjean.  Some weekends they are right up there and others they are nowhere.  I'm confused.  They must be too.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on April 29, 2017, 07:07:34 PM
Grosjean fears his rear brakes will lock and he'll spin or even crash. The new cars are less planted at the rear anyway. Soooo, he's braking early, too early.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Scott on April 29, 2017, 07:57:22 PM
Grossjean should copy his teammate's setup and just get on with it.  Getting a bit tiresome listening to him whine while the other car doesn't have nearly as much trouble.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on April 29, 2017, 09:16:42 PM
KMag also complained about the brakes, just quietly and with less drama.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Alianora La Canta on April 30, 2017, 09:31:02 AM
I think Haas' brake problem is not with the brakes...
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Andy B on April 30, 2017, 09:59:21 AM
I think Haas' brake problem is not with the brakes...

Quite right Ali Grosjean needs to be taken out to the back of the garage and given a slap he's an employee saw as the rest and so sackable if he does not shape up.
Gets off soapbox and leaves.  :crazy:
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Scott on April 30, 2017, 10:55:42 AM
Brembo - Carbone - Brembo...totally agree with Ali, the problem isn't the brakes.  It's a setup problem that the engineers haven't figured out, and Grossjean hasn't come to grips with.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: J.Clark on April 30, 2017, 12:06:13 PM
I am hoping for a race with no Safety Car.

It should be an interesting outcome, even if there isn't much overtaking; although, it does seem overtaking, or at least wheel-to-wheel racing is going to be happening this season.

Vettel should win it, and based upon history (his), Bottas should be able to beat Hamilton.

It may just be in qualifying, but it does appear that Massa could be fighting with the Red Bulls for a change.  We can hope . . .
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on April 30, 2017, 12:15:12 PM
K-Mag seem to not be effected by the changes. This is the third week in a row that one of the Haas drivers has had a good lap at the end of Q1 cut off by a yellow flag.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: John S on April 30, 2017, 12:36:34 PM
K-Mag seem to not be effected by the changes. This is the third week in a row that one of the Haas drivers has had a good lap at the end of Q1 cut off by a yellow flag.

Just shows they should get on it earlier or take the risk of a drop, surely though it's one of the things that makes this quali format entertaining. Also causes movement through the field from further back during the race, another bonus for us viewers.   
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: J.Clark on April 30, 2017, 03:52:30 PM
While I like the end result - what a miserable parade to watch.

I put it almost entirely on the circuit too.  There has not been, nor is there likely to be, an exciting race at this venue.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Dare on April 30, 2017, 05:37:00 PM
Yeah Jim if you got distracted during lap one turn one you missed
the overtaking.

I really thought Vettel would win this one wire to wire and Lewis
would finish second.Ocon and Hulk fooled me.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Alianora La Canta on April 30, 2017, 08:26:33 PM
This race was almost as boring as Sochi's debut and I didn't even ask for a boring race this time...

Heroes

Bottas - Converted his 3rd place optimally, with the least-worst strategy of the frontrunners and a super start. Enjoy it, Valterri.

Ocon - Helped influence the race ending, so good was his defence of Hulkenberg. Routinely improving and was one of the more interesting ones to watch in the race.

Massa - Great run until the puncture, and wasn't far off finishing 8th despite it.

Zeroes

Honda - I wanted to write what is wrong with Honda's *splutter*

Haas - I'm not sure what their "brakes" issue is, but if it is brakes it's going a really good illusion act.

Putin - If you're going to do a big "I am, Russia is" speech, it's probably better to do it when your audience is fresh and potentially interested in a word you have to say, rather than after the race when your audience is three exhausted drivers dreaming of champagne and their beds, some officials who would like to just get stuff done already so the TV companies don't moan and some bewildered fans, most of whom have wandered or dozed off already.

Also for instructing FOM to spend more time on him than of anything of interest in the race. Some fleeting in-race glimpses are understandable given celebrity policy, and it wasn't the most eventful race Sochi's had, but doing it this way makes your event look outdated and parochial, rather contradicting the reasons you said you wanted the race in the first place. (A lot of verbiage for someone who was less of a zero than others in the race, but... ...I could do with a good long rant!)
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Scott on April 30, 2017, 10:12:58 PM
Palmer vs Grosjean I put on Grosjean.  Palmer had nowhere to go, and that corner doesn't fit 3 cars, so considering Grosjean was last in line, it's his boo-boo.  I loved his comment suggesting Palmer should have pushed the Sauber out of the way.  Yes, people should crash into one another so you have a free corner.

Well that was it for the action. 

Great race won by Bottas on lap one, turn one.  Those who said it was boring weren't measuring my pulse during the last 10 laps when I was in the edge of my seat watching Vettel squeeze the gap.  I guess if there had been 5 more laps and nobody named Massa in the race, he might have done it.

Glad I could watch this one on fast forward.

Best radio quote - Kimi asking how they ended up behind Bottas after the pit stop.  "He is the race leader, Kimi"
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: J.Clark on May 01, 2017, 12:01:59 AM
The final dozen or so laps with Vettel running down Bottas was exciting, but after the first lap, nothing happened until that.

I agree, can't blame Polmer, but I doubt without the video review, Grosjean will know that Polmer had someone beside him.  Grosjean would have been wise to brake a bit earlier, but frankly speaking, I think rather than placing blame, it was a racing incident.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Jericoke on May 01, 2017, 04:25:25 AM
While I like the end result - what a miserable parade to watch.

I put it almost entirely on the circuit too.  There has not been, nor is there likely to be, an exciting race at this venue.

I don't know that we can blame the venue or even the rules for this boring race.  The cars were spaced out far enough there wasn't any passing opportunities.  Essentially, that's how a car race should be, fastest at the front, slowest at the back.

Hopefully we don't see many more like this. Of course, more races like this will increase calls for the inverted grid, which I personally would like to see.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Scott on May 01, 2017, 05:44:58 AM
I doubt without the video review, Grosjean will know that Polmer had someone beside him.  Grosjean would have been wise to brake a bit earlier, but frankly speaking, I think rather than placing blame, it was a racing incident.

Post race Grosjean specifically said that if there was a car on the outside, Palmer should have pushed it wide instead of closing the door on him.  But like I said, the only problem was that the running order through the corner was Sauber, Renault and Haas, so I have no idea why he thinks the corner should have been his.  I only bring it up because Romain was the loudest complainer in the incident...otherwise I would agree, call it a racing incident and get on with it.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: F1fanaticBD on May 01, 2017, 08:57:35 AM
Heroes :

Wizzo : Poking ian's bum as a birthday gift, for me that was the highlight of the race  :DD :DD

Bottas : Great first lap, soaked up pressure till the end, and not fluttering under pressure and getting his first win. He also showed the Merc, in a bad day for Lewis, they can count on him to get the maximum for the team.

Ferrari : Keeping Vettel out, made the race worthy of talking a little bit. Had Vettel shadowed Bottas we would had to pick some other part of ian to poke to keep us awake.

Ocon : He has been one of the most consistant driver, and his driving is much mature for a rookie. I hope he can move up the tiers, and does not end up like Nico Hulkenberg.

How do you develop a track that will ensure a lot of overtaking? Wide tracks pops in the mind, but that depends a lot with the car designs, rather than a race track. I remember how Barcelona used to be a stale first corner race, and look at the history of last 3-4 race and how it spiced itself up. I liked the race track, it has a certain rhythm to complete a fast good lap, and punishes you if you do not keep the rhythm as we have seen with Lewis this time. In Monaco its very difficult to overtake, but it has survived and thrived.

But I was disappointed with Mid-Field for not taking initiative to be bold, try to risk a few to gain a lot. Their attitude of staying where we are, and getting on with it made the race look stale in my opinion.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Scott on May 01, 2017, 09:14:38 AM
Too bad I missed chat, I imagine there was plenty of time to gab.  Worked like a madman until 4-ish and then snuck in a 2hr bike ride before sitting on the couch with a beer and my finger on fast forward.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on May 01, 2017, 11:58:54 AM
I agree about Grosjean. He proved once again that drivers can't win a race on the first lap but they can certainly loss one that way.

As for Putin, he reminds me of something that Teddy Roosevelt's daughter said about her father. "He wants to be the bride at every wedding, the baby at every christening and the corpse at every funeral."
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Scott on May 01, 2017, 12:50:57 PM
Putin's arrival was perfectly timed after 35 dull laps, he shows up on lap 36 with tv directors desperate to show something other than the paint drying on the track. 
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: monty on May 02, 2017, 09:25:50 AM
A race every bit as terrible as expected. The 'race' was finished as they exited the first corner. Bottas had a good start so he won. Hamilton also had a good start but had to back out to avoid a collision so he stayed forth. Other than that there was really nothing to report. Boring!
Regarding the only other discussion - totally Grossjean's fault. Unfortunately, when things do not go his way, he acts like a spoiled child. He came into the corner too fast, he was on the kerb so he had no control and therefore hit Palmer who had every right to be where he was. It was bad driving which can be forgiven but to then blame Palmer (and even suggest that it was Palmer's responsibility to 'push the Sauber out of the way' - just to make room for Grossjean) was pathetic.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on May 02, 2017, 12:31:47 PM
I'm a Haas fan. I'm really trying to like Grosjean but he doesn't make it easy. I agree, the shunt was all on him. As far as what he said about Palmer shoving the Sauber out of the way: Hey, Romain, when you land in Global Rallycross, tell Scott Speed we all said hi.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on May 03, 2017, 01:07:16 PM
The FIA says there was 1 on-track pass for the entire race.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/fia-reports-just-one-overtaking-pass-during-f1-russian-grand-prix-sochi
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Jericoke on May 03, 2017, 02:41:40 PM
The FIA says there was 1 on-track pass for the entire race.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/fia-reports-just-one-overtaking-pass-during-f1-russian-grand-prix-sochi

There weren't any opportunities.  None of the cars were even in DRS range of the car ahead.  The cars qualified in the order of their speed (Bottas excepted apparently), so of course they stayed in order.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Scott on May 03, 2017, 03:07:33 PM
I wonder if it's related to Bottas' first race comments about the cars are unable to get any closer in the sweeping corners when the air has been disturbed (which Sochi has plenty of).  Vettel seemed to stall at 1-1.5sec behind and the couple of times he was able to use DRS in the closing laps, it gave no advantage.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on May 03, 2017, 04:30:13 PM
Going further, the FIA says they are satisfied with the level of passing and will take no action to try to improve it.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Jericoke on May 03, 2017, 07:51:25 PM
I wonder if it's related to Bottas' first race comments about the cars are unable to get any closer in the sweeping corners when the air has been disturbed (which Sochi has plenty of).  Vettel seemed to stall at 1-1.5sec behind and the couple of times he was able to use DRS in the closing laps, it gave no advantage.

Sounds like a design problem.  All the cars are designed to be leading the race... since only one car can lead at a time, that leaves 19 cars designed wrong (okay, 17, who knows how the McLarens are designed).  A smart team will design their car to run in 'dirty' air.  Since F1 gives no reward to leading any lap except the last one, designing a car to run in second and then pass for first (but not hold it) would be huge.
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Dare on May 03, 2017, 09:56:59 PM
Massa let Bottas  pass and held Vettel up long enough to
kill a possible pass number two.Vettel closed the 6 second gap
pretty fast to get within one second and couldn't get the pass
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: John S on May 04, 2017, 09:14:42 AM
Massa let Bottas  pass and held Vettel up long enough to
kill a possible pass number two.Vettel closed the 6 second gap
pretty fast to get within one second and couldn't get the pass

I'm sure Massa did interfere with the end of the race but I also feel he only spoiled the excitement of a real nail biting final run right to the flag. So I think Brawn would like him punished for spoiling his new show. :D

Unless Seb chucked his car up alongside Valteri in one of the last corners, risking his own race finish which was unlikely this early in the season, I don't really see how he was going to pass.

I think Vettel also knew this which is why he was so relaxed about Massa's intervention in the post race interviews - most unlike Seb of old.  ;) 
Title: Re: Russian GP
Post by: Irisado on May 27, 2017, 10:42:56 AM
The dullest race of the year by a long way.  It was tedious from start to finish and yielded almost nothing in the way of excitement.  The track is just so boring.  If Liberty really wants to undo some of the poor decisions made by Ecclestone, dropping this venue would be a great way to start.
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
Menu Editor Pro 1.0 | Copyright 2013, Matthew Kerle