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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: John S on February 10, 2019, 02:24:56 PM

Title: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: John S on February 10, 2019, 02:24:56 PM
Now they've lost a TV broadcast deal worth over 7% of all F1 broadcast revenues.  :swoon:

https://www.gpfans.com/en/articles/4139/liberty-media-has-lost-one-of-f1-s-biggest-television-deals/
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Luke on February 10, 2019, 02:29:44 PM
With any luck Sky pull out so I can cancel Sky Sports too.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Calman on February 10, 2019, 08:27:19 PM
I wonder what Sir Bernie thinks of all of this?

It just seems to be one new headline (or do I mean 'Liberty disaster story') weekly now.   :DntKnw:

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on February 11, 2019, 01:14:18 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Bernie wasn't behind it. Spreading rumors and stirring the pot in an effort to get F1 back on the cheap.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Luke on February 11, 2019, 07:47:06 AM
That's my feeling too, Lonny.  Then he'll get it back and rip off the viewing public even further (given most of these pay walls were put in by him in the first place!)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Calman on February 11, 2019, 08:18:21 AM
Since we are discussing Bernie, I thought I'd change my Avatar.   I mean, c'mon, how can you not love Bernie???? ... as the sun rises, Bernie makes prizes, as the sun sets, he provides people with humongous debts!!!

Simply put, he is a lovely, caring, generous old man .... gimmi a minute, my alarm clock will go off!!!   :DD

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Luke on February 11, 2019, 08:30:43 AM
Good morning Mr Ecclestone, nice to meet you. 

By nice, I mean slightly nauseating.   :tease:
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Calman on February 11, 2019, 09:13:56 AM
By nice, I mean slightly nauseating.   :tease:

Nauseating? ...

In that case, can we open discussions regarding contracts, usage rights, slice of the pie and general percentages if you will ... oh yes, I have some cheep local medical supplies in my "old man" trouser pocket ... those you can have for FREE!!! (as I think they are lozenges stuck to an old handkerchief from 1978).

Get back to me ...

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Luke on February 11, 2019, 09:35:24 AM
Where has the Bernie pic gone?!

Where is the hidden cost behind these free lozenges? 
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Jericoke on February 11, 2019, 03:11:14 PM
As much as I'm happy to assume Bernie is behind everything F1... a company owned by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia driving a spike into an American media company might have other ulterior motives.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Calman on February 11, 2019, 04:35:36 PM
Where has the Bernie pic gone?!

Where is the hidden cost behind these free lozenges?

The Bernie Pic has now taken on an Ambassador role, so although you don't see it, it's still lurking in the backdrop.  The hidden cost in the lozenges is based on their centers, EMPTY!!!!

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Alianora La Canta on February 11, 2019, 09:05:36 PM
Sounds like something gloriously petty, from the puns involved:

- Genuine article: BeIN
- Pirate outfit: BeoutQ

You can sort of tell who BeoutQ's main target is just from the name...

Also, tackling third-party piracy by a broadcaster was no more a strength of Bernie's than Liberty's, largely because that sort of thing needs a government capable and willing to enforce contract law, rather than anything a content provider could realistically do. For once, I'm happy to exonerate Bernie from accusations of foul play, at least regarding the "face value" problem. (Where I do not exonerate him, is that he almost certainly did some backroom mischief to highlight content owners' impotence on the matter).

It's all well and good asking a content provider to start legal cases over contractual exclusivity, but there are at least a dozen jurisdictions involved, not all of which (perhaps not any - I'm not sure this is the only pirated content BeoutQ has - have the ability to enforce a judgment even if Liberty could have obtained it. In the case of Saudi Arabia, the nation BeIN appears to have considered the flashpoint, it's unlikely that Liberty could have got the case to court at all given the polities involved (Saudi Arabia is very sensitive at the moment to accusations its favoured entities could do any wrong whatsoever). The fact that the average accepted commercial case in Saudi Arabia takes 575 (or, 1 year and 7 months) to be decided (slightly faster than average for the region, but still quite a backlog) may also have been a factor.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Alianora La Canta on February 12, 2019, 05:00:51 PM
Double-post because I think Liberty's situation has not improved...

The EU has ruled that, at least in some circumstances, it is possible for per-country selling of TV contracts in the EU be illegal under some circumstances if it isn't necessary and is done in a way to breach anti-competition law. This week, a challenge from Canal+ was dismissed (https://www.stewartslaw.com/news/territorial-licensing-of-content-following-canal-plus-case-copyright-vs-competition-law/), thus cementing this interpretation. (I emphasise at this point that the finer details of what is/isn't "necessary" aren't fully worked out yet).

Two takeaways:

1) Liberty may be challenged in court if providers within the EU27 wish to make their F1 programming available to people in other EU countries. That could lose it a lot of money, as the number of total TV contracts will decrease.

2) Liberty may be able to claw some of this back by challenging those broadcasters who have exclusive online rights that the specific provision is no longer legal - and thus get F1 TV Pro into EU countries that don't currently have the option.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Ian on February 14, 2019, 04:13:42 PM
No sympathy for Liberty, they thought they could make a fortune by giving sky sports the lot. At least the important suits in rugby union got it right. Sky sports and netflix were both after the 6 Nations series but the suits slammed the door in their faces saying they were more than happy with ITV's and BBC's coverage and that it reached a wider coverage with them.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on February 14, 2019, 04:26:43 PM
That always puzzled me about F1. They are handicapping the teams efforts to get sponsors by narrowing the TV audience. Sky may be good for the short term bottom line but has to hurt in the long run.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Jericoke on February 15, 2019, 02:27:47 AM
That always puzzled me about F1. They are handicapping the teams efforts to get sponsors by narrowing the TV audience. Sky may be good for the short term bottom line but has to hurt in the long run.

I first watched F1 on Free to Air broadcasts on the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation.  It's a great way to attract casual fans who will become more interested.  No one wakes up one day deciding to pay hundreds of dollars to watch something they've never seen.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Calman on February 16, 2019, 03:55:34 AM
Don't panic!! .. we have found Liberty Media's replacement.  He is taking a consultancy role for now, then watch out, Mr S is coming!!!!!!

https://www.pitpass.com/63903/Smedley-takes-consultancy-role-with-F1

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Alianora La Canta on February 16, 2019, 07:19:44 AM
That always puzzled me about F1. They are handicapping the teams efforts to get sponsors by narrowing the TV audience. Sky may be good for the short term bottom line but has to hurt in the long run.

They prefer to have all of a smaller pie than a piece of the larger one, and using their platform powers to get it.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Scott on February 16, 2019, 08:51:44 AM
That always puzzled me about F1. They are handicapping the teams efforts to get sponsors by narrowing the TV audience. Sky may be good for the short term bottom line but has to hurt in the long run.

They prefer to have all of a smaller pie than a piece of the larger one, and using their platform powers to get it.
But that doesn’t address the question about how limited viewership hurts sponsorship value and therefor everyone’s bottom line.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Luke on February 16, 2019, 10:44:17 AM
Don't panic!! .. we have found Liberty Media's replacement.  He is taking a consultancy role for now, then watch out, Mr S is coming!!!!!!

https://www.pitpass.com/63903/Smedley-takes-consultancy-role-with-F1

Best Regards,
Cal :)

Quite alarming how many ex-Williams staff are going straight from the team to the FIA.  Alarming as many helped lead to the hole the team are in now.  Although, maybe they are working to drag the standards of the sport down to Williams level.  One can but hope!
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: John S on February 16, 2019, 11:56:22 AM

Quite alarming how many ex-Williams staff are going straight from the team to the FIA.  Alarming as many helped lead to the hole the team are in now.  Although, maybe they are working to drag the standards of the sport down to Williams level.  One can but hope!

Ah you've spotted Frank's long term plan Luke, send the moles in, if you can't catch the others get the Regs to slow them all down.  :D 
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Luke on February 16, 2019, 12:15:20 PM
It's true though John!  They even took Williams' old head of Aerodynamics, Jason Somerville, and what has been perceived as the team's weakness over the last goodness knows how many years?! 

Frank's a cunning old fox!
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Alianora La Canta on February 16, 2019, 11:19:24 PM
But that doesn’t address the question about how limited viewership hurts sponsorship value and therefor everyone’s bottom line.

I think that might be the hole in the FIA's plan ;)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Calman on February 16, 2019, 11:48:37 PM
It's true though John!  They even took Williams' old head of Aerodynamics, Jason Somerville, and what has been perceived as the team's weakness over the last goodness knows how many years?! 

Frank's a cunning old fox!

As a Williams aficionado Luke, do you know much about Pat Symond's involvement nowadays (other than bumbling around with cameo visits to the Sky F1 Team?

After all these years, I still struggle to believe that Pat was the key figure responsible for the Piquet Jr saga!!

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Calman on February 19, 2019, 02:56:57 AM
Still, these headlines surrounding Liberty Media are rumbling on ...
https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport/formula-one/f1-news-2019-liberty-media-could-be-set-to-sell-sport-they-purchased-for-1085bn-two-years-ago/news-story/9bda984df9b41954a12e745f4869362f

Maybe it will all settle down by the 17th March, only time will tell?

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on February 19, 2019, 04:05:53 AM
Unless Liberty has decided there is no profit to be made, they are unlikely to sell. It's too soon. Any buyers will be looking for them to discount the price. I doubt Liberty will want to take a substantial hit after so short a time.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Calman on February 19, 2019, 06:16:19 AM
Pretty much!!

It's a bit like driving a brand new car out of a dealership, then trying to trade it in to the garage across the road a week later.

They might as well stick it out, get the best out of the "Car" ... then cut their losses when there is nothing more to gain.

Best Regards,
Cal :)
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Alianora La Canta on February 19, 2019, 06:30:16 AM
As a Williams aficionado Luke, do you know much about Pat Symond's involvement nowadays (other than bumbling around with cameo visits to the Sky F1 Team?

After all these years, I still struggle to believe that Pat was the key figure responsible for the Piquet Jr saga!!

Best Regards,
Cal :)

I understand Pat retired from that role at the end of 2016 to focus on media work. Which would explain a lot.
Title: Re: Oh No - more strife for F1 owners Liberty
Post by: Luke on February 19, 2019, 07:33:21 AM
I would un-retire Pat promptly by making him an offer he couldn't refuse.