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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: cosworth151 on April 22, 2019, 11:35:10 PM

Title: Liberty Looking at 4th Round of Quali
Post by: cosworth151 on April 22, 2019, 11:35:10 PM
Liberty is looking into adding a 4th round to quali. IMO, quali is one of the few things in F1 that works really well. If it's not broken, don't try to fix it!

https://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/f1-paddock-debates-merits-fourth-qualifying-round
Title: Re: Liberty Looking at 4th Round of Quali
Post by: Dare on April 23, 2019, 12:02:20 AM
Agreed Cos,what next?
Title: Re: Liberty Looking at 4th Round of Quali
Post by: rmassart on April 23, 2019, 06:53:18 AM
20 rounds? Every two minutes the slowest get's knocked out!!!  :D
Title: Re: Liberty Looking at 4th Round of Quali
Post by: Robem64 on April 23, 2019, 12:31:47 PM
They tinkered with quali before and it was a disaster. I think it works just how it is - excitement generally all the way through until the final car crosses the line in Q3 IMO.
Title: Re: Liberty Looking at 4th Round of Quali
Post by: rmassart on April 23, 2019, 02:21:09 PM
Personally I preferred how things were back in the 80s and 90s (not sure when they changed it?).  Two equal free for all qualifying sessions, Friday and Saturday. I realise it wouldn't work in this day and age of instant gratification on Facebook (guilty as charged) as well as the largely failed attempts at cost cutting and things like Tyre choices. Despite everything (eg back markers or team mates getting in the way of others) the best still managed to get on pole most of the time.

And on the subject of tyres, I think all these tyre variants are too complicated for the casual viewer. Even I get confused by which drivers are allowed to start on which tyre depending on where they qualified in Q2. Maybe I am just getting too old...

One of the many problems for F1 is that in an attempt make it more exciting they are also making it more complex. More complexity reduces the fun of watching in my opinion and also improves the chances of the richer teams as they are able to invest in more and more complex systems whilst the poorer teams can't.
Title: Re: Liberty Looking at 4th Round of Quali
Post by: Scott on April 23, 2019, 02:28:56 PM
I agree rmassart.  I liked it when a driver posted a time and others simply tried to beat it. 

But the tire rules with regards to Q and which ones you can use to start are just stupid.  Let the teams develop their own strategy for tires, period. 
Title: Re: Liberty Looking at 4th Round of Quali
Post by: Jericoke on April 23, 2019, 04:01:08 PM
The current qualifying was quite well thought out.  Drivers get a couple of shots per round, there's room for mistakes to shake up the grid. 

At the same time, the slower cars are generally out of the way when it comes down to deciding who is going to start on pole.

I don't mind more rounds of qualifying, but there needs to be more cars to fill them up!  Talk to me when there's 26 drivers clogging up Q1
Title: Re: Liberty Looking at 4th Round of Quali
Post by: John S on April 23, 2019, 04:18:21 PM
I like Quali as it is too.  :good:

However if more runs puts some of the top teams in more jeopardy then I'm up for giving it a go. 

Only problem I have is this stupid top ten have to start on tyres used in Q2.  :crazy:
Some of the midfielders are damned either way, seek an improvement in grid position and lose to the track position undercut from those just outside the top ten who can start on what they like.

If they change to 4 part Quali they should reduce the cars forced to start on tyres already used - or better still scrap that rule altogether.
Title: Re: Liberty Looking at 4th Round of Quali
Post by: Alianora La Canta on April 23, 2019, 07:08:41 PM
20 rounds? Every two minutes the slowest get's knocked out!!!  :D

Single-driver elimination didn't work in the two races it was used in 2016 because people just did a run at the very beginning, and then only bothered going out again when they were about to be knocked out. At that, they would only if they thought they could substantially improve on their time. This meant they tended to do 3-9 laps - less running than in the 1996-2002 12-lap format, let alone the current three-session eliminator method (which requires at least 9 laps but more often has the top runners doing 15).

4 sessions is not so bad but I think at least one session would turn into a formality most races. This sometimes happens now (witness Q1 in China, where you just had to be the last non-Williams to set a time to go through, removing most of the drama). I'm not sure if there would be any true jeopordy for the top teams unless one session had 7 or fewer entrants (and in that case, we'd probably see more strategic non-completions of Q3 because of the big advantage of a fresh set of tyres and the reduced advantage of being in the next session).

If the 4-session eliminator happened, I assume that to avoid perverse incentives, only those doing Q4 have to start on old tyres (namely, the ones on which they set their Q3 time).

Fortunately, there is apparently only one team interested in the system, which means it is unlikely to get the necessary approvals to be adopted. Expect the current system to stay.