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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Willy on July 01, 2019, 01:46:05 PM

Title: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Willy on July 01, 2019, 01:46:05 PM
Heroes
MyWorld Ring, Red Bull Ring, A1 Ring or what ever it is called now.
A great track that utilizes the topography of the land very well and gives lots of elevation changes. Nice corners with good passing chances.
Charles Leclerc
Great run for pole, great start, great race but the tire degradation at the end caused him issues.
Lando Norris
Once again this young man shows he has what it takes to run with the front runners.

Zeros
Max Verstappen
We have a successor to Michael Schumacher here in the making. He is dirty and has no issues pulling outright unsportsmanlike moves on whomever he feels is in his way, just as Schumacher did all the time.
Max's move on Leclerc was pure Schumacher, pushing Leclerc off track when it was not necessary for the pass.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: cosworth151 on July 01, 2019, 03:37:03 PM
Heroes:

The circuit (whatever it's called today) - An example of what a top grade circuit should be. Best F1 race in quite a while.

Zeroes:

Max - For many of the same reasons that Willy listed. I've never cared for dirty drivers like Schumi, Dale Sr. and others. If you can't race without trying to get somebody killed, park it & take up soccer.

Ferrari pit stop - I'm not sure who to blame. I've been very busy since the race so I haven't had time to catch up on the F1 news. When it happened, we speculated in the Chat Room that maybe Vettel was supposed to do the opposite of whatever Bottas did.

Haas - Only one thing to say - "You're killing me, Smalls!"
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Alianora La Canta on July 01, 2019, 08:00:13 PM
Heroes

Charles Leclerc - Looking at Max's performance, had the start gone to plan, this race would have been a Verstappen benefit nine times out of ten. However it didn't, and it was refreshing to see the twin hopes of F1's future actually meet on track. He might have finished second on track, he might not have the plaudits, but I think Charles maximised his car even better than Max did yesterday. He did a fine job of getting the Ferrari to a position where victory was visible. He managed to get Ferrari to do a decent strategy for him (possibly the most remarkable feat of his weekend, though nobody in red will ever admit this). He also fended off Max far longer than I thought possible given Max's tyre advantage.

The one burr in the judgment was that I think he over-defended on that infamous collision, not recognising that the corner was lost and lightly steering into Max in a futile attempt to get Max to return to the correct part of the track. Had he done so, I believe he would have won the race in the stewards' office. But is that how anyone wants Charles to win his maiden Grand Prix? (I'm hoping it's going to end up more like how Damon Hill got his win - two lost opportunities for reasons not really in his hands and one that was, before getting three victories in a row and setting himself up for what turned out to be a title-fighting campaign the next year). This, ultimately, is why I have no quarrel with the stewards finding as they did.

Russell - shoutout to George for beating Magnussen. Granted, Kevin had a penalty in-race that didn't help him, but George has given Williams something vital: hope.

Verstappen - controversial, yes, but even if Max had failed on that move to the point of stuffing his own car into the barrier, the rest of his drive would still have been noteworthy. Not many people could fall to 8th and still find themselves a win contender by the end of the race - while I said the Red Bull had a pace advantage over the Ferrari, it was minor compared to the gaps we're used to seeing from Mercedes. Max also showed himself capable of some excellent moves (the one on Vettel was particularly fun due to the way it was set up), alongside that pointlessly exaggerated one. Well... ...I say "pointless", but what those last few laps did was showcase exactly what each of F1's next title-fighting duo are like, how they race, their strengths... ...and their weaknesses. Make no mistake, this is ten minutes of race footage that will be getting cited for years to come.

Zeroes

Gasly - Sadly, Pierre does not look long for the Red Bull team. With the best car, he was stranded in midfield all weekend. This is, I believe, the price of him being expected to be Max Verstappen (in attitude and not just in performance), and being himself instead. He's clearly not happy, even if he is masking it. I can only hope Pierre finds his happiness in motorsport elsewhere.

Racing Point - nearly outqualified by a Williams on merit. I'm not even sure Williams spends more money on F1 than Racing Point any more...

Mercedes. This is not what I expect from that well-oiled machine, and in a race with very few true-blue zero-worthy performances, I have to mention this.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: John S on July 02, 2019, 02:34:10 PM
Heroes:

Max - Man of the Match award. He kept me enthralled for the last quarter of the race and in every way deserved the win. Never thought I would praise him but golly he was electric.

Lando - Great Quali followed by a blinding race effort, yes the Macca liked the track note Sainz made a great drive through the field too, but Lando managed to finish in front of one of the top 3 cars on merit. The opening laps saw Lando featuring in most of the moves and counter moves which set us on course for the most exciting race this year.

Alfa Romeo - They showed the pace that has been missing in earlier races and managed to get both cars in the points.

Zeros:

Lewis - He broke his own front wing which lost him positions and seems to have succumbed to narcolepsy after his pitstop.

Haas - They seem to have completely lost the plot, enough said.

Racing Point - Seems to me money has gone to their heads.  :(
C'mon guys n' gals get the ball 'Rollin' instead of 'Strollin' in the right direction   
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: monty on July 08, 2019, 04:06:18 PM
The track worked well for these cars.
The one hero was the single Red Bull car with their latest aero package. It was seriously fast.
The one Zero was Max - he failed to make the most of this new package to overtake cleanly (again!).

To the Max supporters I would ask you to consider one thing - what would Max have said if another driver did the same to him? We would still be hearing the expletive filled whinging now!
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 08, 2019, 07:58:30 PM
Totally agree. Too bad when they updated the circuit they shortened it. They will be under a minute in a year or two, plus the old turn one was one the drivers used to mention in the same breath as Eau Rouge. They decided it was too hairy after Donohue was killed so they made it a chicane, then they eliminated it all together.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Dare on July 08, 2019, 09:17:13 PM
No matter how great Max drives I'll never compliment
him. He's a dirty driver with no class. I think my F1 days
are nearing a end.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: John S on July 08, 2019, 09:37:38 PM
No matter how great Max drives I'll never compliment
him. He's a dirty driver with no class. I think my F1 days
are nearing a end.

I felt the same way about Senna, Dare. Luckily I saw plenty of drivers who didn't need to be so dirty and hung in there.

The reward is seeing F1 continue in spite of bad eggs, no one can be bad all the time and no one lasts forever.   
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Dare on July 08, 2019, 11:44:15 PM
No matter how great Max drives I'll never compliment
him. He's a dirty driver with no class. I think my F1 days
are nearing a end.

I felt the same way about Senna, Dare. Luckily I saw plenty of drivers who didn't need to be so dirty and hung in there.

The reward is seeing F1 continue in spite of bad eggs, no one can be bad all the time and no one lasts forever.


Trouble is at my age he'll outlast me. After Kimi's gone it would be hard for me to have a favorite.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Alianora La Canta on July 09, 2019, 12:11:54 AM
I would like to suggest Leclerc as a possible candidate for that role Dare, I think he shares your opinion of Max's driving (if perhaps a bit more diplomatic about expressing it...)
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Dare on July 09, 2019, 12:41:32 AM
I would like to suggest Leclerc as a possible candidate for that role Dare, I think he shares your opinion of Max's driving (if perhaps a bit more diplomatic about expressing it...)


If Ferrari ever lets him truly race he's the only
driver besides Kimi I like. I was a Fisi fans for years
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 09, 2019, 04:27:28 AM
I felt the same way about Schumacher.

Le Clerc does seem a good sort. He's been crapped on by Ferrari without whining much. Norris might be good if Macca makes it all the way to the front. Still like Danny, but Renault needs to get it together to make good.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Jericoke on July 09, 2019, 03:16:14 PM
I would like to suggest Leclerc as a possible candidate for that role Dare, I think he shares your opinion of Max's driving (if perhaps a bit more diplomatic about expressing it...)


If Ferrari ever lets him truly race he's the only
driver besides Kimi I like. I was a Fisi fans for years

Drivers always talk about emulating their heroes, usually Senna.

I'm surprised there aren't more young drivers who see Kimi's imprint on the fans and at least try to come in with that 'cool' demeanor.

Now that Max's driving is improving, if he were to pivot into being a man of few words, he'd gain a whole lot of fans who don't wear Orange.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Alianora La Canta on July 09, 2019, 05:45:59 PM
Jeri, I think there are drivers trying to do that. They just haven't gone into F1. Perhaps it's too much of a talking shop for those drivers naturally inclined towards introversion, respectful quiet and impeccably-timed one-liners.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Andy B on July 10, 2019, 04:01:19 AM
No matter how great Max drives I'll never compliment
him. He's a dirty driver with no class. I think my F1 days
are nearing a end.

I agree Dare although MV seems to be improving I think?
I also agree about my F1 days nearly being over as the direction Liberty seem to want to go is taking F1 away from its core values it become far too complicated and needs to go back to V8's with no turbo's or electrickery!
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Jericoke on July 10, 2019, 03:30:10 PM
No matter how great Max drives I'll never compliment
him. He's a dirty driver with no class. I think my F1 days
are nearing a end.

I agree Dare although MV seems to be improving I think?
I also agree about my F1 days nearly being over as the direction Liberty seem to want to go is taking F1 away from its core values it become far too complicated and needs to go back to V8's with no turbo's or electrickery!

This is the crux of the debate, what ARE F1's core values?

Historically, it was to make the fastest car using a specific engine formula.  They made sure that the formula allowed for fast cars, but not absurdly fast.

Then they added rules for aerodynamics (and ground effects)

Then they added rules for safety.

Then they added rules for cost cutting.

At no point was the 'core' of F1 running noisy V8s.  I understand the visceral thrill of it, but you can get that at any weekend drag strip if that's what you really want.  I don't have a problem with the engine formula being quiet and electrified.  That's the future of automotive technology.  If F1 stops being 'cars' and becomes something archaic, like horse racing, that's a decision that has to be made.  Certainly no one blames Football for being irrelevant to daily life, F1 doesn't need to be 'road relevant' if they don't want to.

I'd love to see the sport give teams a freer hand in designing the cars.  Safety has to come first, but besides that, if the cars can corner at top speed, that might provide an interesting show.  It will certainly be a new set of skills on the drivers.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Andy B on July 10, 2019, 11:05:37 PM
You're quite right Jeri F1's values are different depending on who you talk to and what they want to see and hear.
I can remember the V12's of Ferrari screaming and the early V8's and even the Turbo era had some volume to it and at no time could you hear the tyre screeching which you can now. Its more than noise though the ability to develop a car to gain an advantage, the technology that all the other teams want to copy but ultimately it's the racing and the aerodynamics that F1 cars now have are detrimental to that. The design turbulence into the car to stop a competitor from getting close if you were a designer why would you not?
Cost capping F1 will make it worse even though I think it would be impossible to police so I would open up the technical regulations with the proviso that trailing turbulence would have to be minimal.
It'll never happen but I can dream.
Title: Re: Austria Heroes & Zeros
Post by: Willy on July 14, 2019, 09:04:25 PM
Must agree with Dare.
My views on Dirty Max have been stated.

I have been a Kimi fan since he 1st arrived and am sad to see his talent floundering around midfield in a car that can't seem to compete.

I very much like Leclerc and also Norris.
If the future of F1 is in their hands I believe it will survive and grow with solid sportsmanship at its core.

If Dirty Max and his ilk have their way then I will stop watching and seek out Formula E or whatever.