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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Ian on July 03, 2020, 01:34:55 PM

Title: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Ian on July 03, 2020, 01:34:55 PM
What a surprise, it's black.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: cosworth151 on July 03, 2020, 02:38:33 PM
It's part of F1's #WeRaceAsOne diversity program. The rainbow on McLaren's halo bar is, too.

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a32997588/new-liveries-for-mercedes-f1-team-designed-to-highlight-diversity-stand-against-racism/
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Dare on July 03, 2020, 04:40:48 PM
I don't know about anyone else but this crap goes
too far. What we used to call a joke now upsets the
new generation.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: John S on July 03, 2020, 05:02:13 PM
You're right Dare. I've removed my post in case my attempted humour might be perceived as insensitive or worse. 
My sincere hope is no one ever feels excluded from enjoying F1 or GPWizard site. 
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Jericoke on July 03, 2020, 06:19:45 PM
What a surprise, it's black.

In all seriousness, if Mercedes has trouble cooling, would a black car cause trouble?  Margins in F1 are razor thin, even a few degrees of heat from the sun might have massive repercussions on a car with inadequate cooling.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: cosworth151 on July 03, 2020, 08:05:01 PM
Also, F1 could be the only place in the known universe where it's hard to tell a Mercedes from a Renault.   ;)
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Dare on July 03, 2020, 09:32:07 PM
You're right Dare. I've removed my post in case my attempted humour might be perceived as insensitive or worse. 
My sincere hope is no one ever feels excluded from enjoying F1 or GPWizard site.


You didn't have to do that John. I was referring to the whole
world is too thin skinned now. You can't say anything without
offending someone. Most of us old timers know how to take
it and give it out too.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Andy B on July 03, 2020, 10:31:01 PM
Also, F1 could be the only place in the known universe where it's hard to tell a Mercedes from a Renault.   ;)

It was once said that if you took all the paint and logo's off the cars and lined them up the team principals could fine their own!

As for the "Snowflakes" I hope they melt away.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Alianora La Canta on July 06, 2020, 10:08:24 AM
In all seriousness, if Mercedes has trouble cooling, would a black car cause trouble?  Margins in F1 are razor thin, even a few degrees of heat from the sun might have massive repercussions on a car with inadequate cooling.

Potentially. It's certainly enough that it would need to be considered.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 06, 2020, 09:06:19 PM
They weren't complaining about cooling were they? I heard the announcers say they were worried about the curbs damaging the shift sensors in the tranny.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Jericoke on July 06, 2020, 09:36:46 PM
They weren't complaining about cooling were they? I heard the announcers say they were worried about the curbs damaging the shift sensors in the tranny.

Last year the said that Austria didn't suit them because of cooling.  Obviously they've solved that gremlin and found a new one.  OR, they were giving false radio messages hoping the other teams would over extend their own equipment.  (I doubt it, but it's F1, so who knows?)
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 07, 2020, 12:12:39 AM
When they told them to keep off the curbs, Lewis did seem to tuck in more around the last 2 corners.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Ian on July 07, 2020, 11:35:58 AM
Totally agree with you Dare, people are too easy to upset nowadays, they can't take a joke, if they came into my local they'd probably have a heart attack.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Jericoke on July 07, 2020, 10:09:38 PM
Totally agree with you Dare, people are too easy to upset nowadays, they can't take a joke, if they came into my local they'd probably have a heart attack.

Part and parcel of our instantaneous, semi-anonymous communication.  It's easy to respond as a victim in the 10 seconds you feel like a victim, instead of waiting a moment to appreciate the joke for what it is.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Alianora La Canta on July 08, 2020, 11:16:18 AM
My generation and the one coming through are also more aware of the number of people who actually get hurt by many of the things that are called "jokes". This results in them being apt to miss that a joke was even being attempted, let alone that anyone was expected to find it funny. I've seen similar problems in reverse, too - old people getting offended by young people's jokes because the young people forget that the old people have a quite different background grid, and that somewhere along the communicative chain, something that was "funny" becomes "unfunny to the point where it doesn't look like it was meant to be a joke" or worse, "offensive". I've seen "snowflakes" of all ages and across the political spectrum.

It's a matter of two very different contexts interacting - humour generally only works when there's common ground on which to base the joke.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: monty on July 09, 2020, 09:07:42 AM
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Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Reply #14 on: July 08, 2020, 11:16:18 AM

Quote
My generation and the one coming through are also more aware of the number of people who actually get hurt by many of the things that are called "jokes".

I know this topic is a minefield and nothing to do with F1. Unless you have ever been the minority at the end of the 'joke' I guess you have no idea of how hurtful it might be. For that reason I fully support better diversity and understanding. My problem is that the protests are having the negative effect of actually causing racism! Many people have interpreted 'Black Lives Matter' as meaning 'Black Lives Matter more than any other colour' - of course that wasn't the intention but it is what is happening. Then there is the ludicrous attack on history. Slavery was abhorrent but it is history, it happened, it has made the World what it is today - nobody knows how the World would be if it hadn't happened and none of it was the fault of today's generation. How far back do we allow things to offend us - the Vikings raped and pillaged the indigenous English; the Moors wiped out whole civilisations; the Romans enslaved every nation they conquered ; etc. It's History and can't be rewritten!
I am more than happy with the F1 approach of WeRaceAsOne - it hopefully stands for equality irrespective of Gender, Race or Ability.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: cosworth151 on July 09, 2020, 02:47:07 PM
Autoweek says that Mercedes ran with their engines at a lower power setting to keep the heat down.

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/formula-1/a33237820/the-verdict-is-in-heres-why-there-was-so-much-attrition-during-f1-austrian-grand-prix/
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Jericoke on July 09, 2020, 06:22:16 PM
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Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Reply #14 on: July 08, 2020, 11:16:18 AM

Quote
My generation and the one coming through are also more aware of the number of people who actually get hurt by many of the things that are called "jokes".

I know this topic is a minefield and nothing to do with F1. Unless you have ever been the minority at the end of the 'joke' I guess you have no idea of how hurtful it might be. For that reason I fully support better diversity and understanding. My problem is that the protests are having the negative effect of actually causing racism! Many people have interpreted 'Black Lives Matter' as meaning 'Black Lives Matter more than any other colour' - of course that wasn't the intention but it is what is happening. Then there is the ludicrous attack on history. Slavery was abhorrent but it is history, it happened, it has made the World what it is today - nobody knows how the World would be if it hadn't happened and none of it was the fault of today's generation. How far back do we allow things to offend us - the Vikings raped and pillaged the indigenous English; the Moors wiped out whole civilisations; the Romans enslaved every nation they conquered ; etc. It's History and can't be rewritten!
I am more than happy with the F1 approach of WeRaceAsOne - it hopefully stands for equality irrespective of Gender, Race or Ability.

So, the deal with statues/hero worship of flawed figures is complicated, of course.

In the USA many of the statues being torn down were nominally built as memorials, but that's not what their intention was.  When the Confederate States lost, they were embarrassed by their defeat.  They never celebrated it, they never had a 'culture' or 'heritage' of celebrating the people that lead to them being humiliated.  What the statues represented was power.  The generation that had grown up with the humiliation of treating slaves and their descendants as people could not bear it, and they're the ones who started putting up statues, saying it wasn't always like this.  Once upon a time 'brave' men stood up for oppression, and they longed for more brave men to stand up to the oppression of not being allowed to oppress anyone.

Now, once anger at these particular monuments grew, people started to wonder about statues/worship of other people who thought nothing of oppressing human beings.  Statues of Washington, John A MacDonald (our own Canadian hero/monster) and Columbus seem like they're fair game, even though they were never put up to commemorate the awful things they did, but rather the great things they did.  It's certainly dicier to try to decide WHY a statue was put up, but it was an open secret that the Confederate Statues were basically burning crosses to let the former slaves know that it could happen again.  From there, it's easy to pile on and show how progressive you are.

Columbus himself is interesting, as he was turned into a hero to FIGHT racism.  When Italians were immigrating to America they were seen as worthless.  They pointed out that an Italian had discovered America, and gosh darn it, if you want to celebrate America, you HAD to celebrate Italians.  (They even got Washington Irving, the famous writer, to create Columbus' back story.)  Up until then, no one cared about Columbus, and if you said he was a slave trading demon, anyone would have agreed.

Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: Andy B on July 13, 2020, 08:34:52 AM
Interestingly how many US Presidents were involved with slavery?
Surely its not a case of being selective over what the protesters protest about?
I'm of the opinion that rather than remove these statues they should have plaques that state why the statues were erected but also what else they were involved with.
From my perspective they were different times which does not make them right but you cannot cleanse history and removing it means future generations cannot learn from it.
As Jeri said its all controversial but if its not talked about it'll get lost again.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 13, 2020, 09:49:52 AM
Unfortunately, if you remove all the racists and slave owners from American history, you remove most of American history.  We, as a nation, need to come to grips with the reality that though our Founding Fathers may have been exceptional in many ways, they were still human and far from perfect.
Title: Re: Mercedes new livery and drivers suits
Post by: cosworth151 on July 13, 2020, 01:59:24 PM
Jefferson originally had an anti slavery clause in the Declaration of Independence. The southern states refused to pass the Declaration until it was removed.

This whole thing over here reminds me of a scene from one of my favorite films, 1776. John Adams asks Franklin what history will think of them. He replies, "Who will they think we were? Demigods? We're men, no more, no less. Trying to start a new nation against far greater odds than a more generous God would have allowed."
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