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F1 News & Discussions => Pit Pass => Topic started by: Jericoke on September 04, 2020, 03:43:43 PM

Title: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: Jericoke on September 04, 2020, 03:43:43 PM
I don't often get to watch practice, but I did get to watch it today for the Italian Grand Prix.  They talked about how if a car goes 4 tires past the white line in certain corners, that the time set that lap doesn't count.

I understand that's a big deal in qualifying, and garners steward attention during a race,  but who cares during practice?  Fastest/slowest in practice doesn't mean a thing.  Further, everyone has seen the lap, so we 'know' what the true pace is.
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: John S on September 04, 2020, 05:42:16 PM
Rules is rules Jeri, whether it's practice, quali or race, the track limits must be observed. Pity they were so lax under the old regime which makes it difficult now for both drivers and spectators to cope with it.

The final goal is to make the white lines at the edge of the tarmac track the proper limit - as it is for sports/touring car, and other series races - who can't put all 4 wheels beyond that white line.

F1 teams however argued for compromise this season since policing of track limits has not really existed for many years in their races. The compromise is F1 cars are allowed to use outside edge of most stripy kerbs as the final delineator rather than white line at track edge, so it appears they are 2 or 3ft off track before penalty.   

Modern electronic sensors make the job simple now for stewards policing this and over time the limit will be pulled back to the white line at edge of actual tarmac. In fact at Monza this weekend track edge white line at Parabolica is being enforced     

Anyway by deleting practice times it prepares the drivers for the main events at each track, without consistency the little darlings will claim the stewards are being unfair on them when they tumble down the grid.

 
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: Andy B on September 06, 2020, 02:13:35 AM
Quite right JS if there was a barrier there they wouldn't go there either.
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: Jericoke on September 06, 2020, 03:50:43 AM
My question is about practice times in particular.  Who cares what the practice times are?  Nothing changes.

I get why it matters in qualifying, a single lap time is the only thing that matters.

Now... if a car exceeded track limits in a race, and nullified the entire lap (i.e., the driver would have to repeat that lap), that would be interesting!
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: Scott on September 06, 2020, 09:30:18 AM
A bit of a tangent, but wouldnt it be fun if weekend penalties were to affect how much time a team has to qualify? 

Take 2-3 minutes of their time limit to Qualify each round as a penalty for exceeding track limits, unsafe moves or blocking during FPs and even previous Q rounds.  I think it would be more effective and spice up Qualifying a bit more, and generally bring behaviour in check.
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: Andy B on September 06, 2020, 09:36:58 AM
My question is about practice times in particular.  Who cares what the practice times are?  Nothing changes.

Now... if a car exceeded track limits in a race, and nullified the entire lap (i.e., the driver would have to repeat that lap), that would be interesting!

Continuity is the reason Jeri what sense would it be if the practice is run under different rules to Quali and the Race?

You have lost me with your second comment?
If a driver had to repeat a lap in the race it would put them a lap down so what would that achieve other than total confusion.

I totally agree with the enforcement of track limits and it should be the white line which is the edge of the track not a metre the other side of it.
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: Jericoke on September 06, 2020, 05:52:44 PM
My question is about practice times in particular.  Who cares what the practice times are?  Nothing changes.

Now... if a car exceeded track limits in a race, and nullified the entire lap (i.e., the driver would have to repeat that lap), that would be interesting!

Continuity is the reason Jeri what sense would it be if the practice is run under different rules to Quali and the Race?

You have lost me with your second comment?
If a driver had to repeat a lap in the race it would put them a lap down so what would that achieve other than total confusion.

I totally agree with the enforcement of track limits and it should be the white line which is the edge of the track not a metre the other side of it.

It's not a continuity of rules though, is it? The practise lap is treated like it never happened,  but the race lap does count (although not in consideration for fastest lap I suppose)

If you can keep your illegal race lap (I.e., don't go a lap down), why does it matter if you keep your practice lap or not?
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: Andy B on September 06, 2020, 09:57:24 PM
It is continuity as they are practicing the route and rules they will use in qualifying and the race by having different rules for practice its just yet another set of rules the teams and fans have to contend with making F1 even more complicated than it already is.
In the race they are given warnings about track limits and then penalised and I expect in the future the warnings will disappear.
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: John S on September 07, 2020, 08:56:36 AM

In the race they are given warnings about track limits and then penalised and I expect in the future the warnings will disappear.

Not sure the warnings will disappear Andy, in most series it's 3 strikes to get penalty on track limits, so the warnings are part of the enforcement process to the penalty.

Bit hard to expect drivers, even in top flight like F1, not to make the odd mistake - but it should be very infrequent - hence the build towards a punishment to prevent half the field, or more, getting time penalties.

We'd certainly all set the internet on fire, and so would the media, if a dozen drivers got time penalties for track limits in just one race.  :D
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: cosworth151 on September 07, 2020, 02:01:13 PM
This is how they used to enforce track limits at Monza in 1964. From the movie Grand Prix. Almost no run off areas at all. Guard rails or even unprotected trees right up at the edge of the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HA71tYl640
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: Alianora La Canta on September 07, 2020, 10:19:31 PM
My question is about practice times in particular.  Who cares what the practice times are?  Nothing changes.

I get why it matters in qualifying, a single lap time is the only thing that matters.

Now... if a car exceeded track limits in a race, and nullified the entire lap (i.e., the driver would have to repeat that lap), that would be interesting!

In practise and the race, there's a system of only penalising drivers if a) they do the same thing several times, b) someone gets overtaken in the process or c) a position is held that otherwise probably wouldn't have been. To consistently enforce a), it is necessary to know if and how many times the track limits were exceeded, so it's officially recorded.
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: Dare on September 07, 2020, 11:55:25 PM
This is how they used to enforce track limits at Monza in 1964. From the movie Grand Prix. Almost no run off areas at all. Guard rails or even unprotected trees right up at the edge of the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HA71tYl640


I'd like to see the cars now on the banking
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on September 08, 2020, 01:25:33 AM
Everything "Stoddard" said about the banking is even more true now than it was in '66. I doubt any of the cars could survive. If you've seen Circuits of the Past's Monza video you know the banking is in pretty terrible shape as well. That '66 Ferrari is one of my all time favorites though.
Title: Re: Practice Lap Times Deleted for Exceeding Track Limits?
Post by: jimclark on September 29, 2020, 05:50:20 AM
I'd like to see the cars now on the banking.
Why so? They're not designed for it.
Everything "Stoddard" said about the banking is even more true now than it was in '66. I doubt any of the cars could survive.
As above, the cars of today are designed for the billiard table smooth circuits mandated, not for the vertical pounding they took years ago..
The days of rough surfaces, dips and rises, jumps and banking that demanded more robust chassis, suspension travel, etc. are long gone for F1 (and most other venues for that matter) :(
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