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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: TheStig on September 07, 2008, 05:19:16 PM

Title: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: TheStig on September 07, 2008, 05:19:16 PM
In the Belgian Grand Prix after receiving a 25-second penalty. First place goes to Felipe Massa (Ferrari), with Nick Heidfeld (BMW) promoted to second place


http://www.sportinglife.com/others/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=others/08/09/07/AUTO_Belgian_Snap.html

ThStig
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Ian on September 07, 2008, 05:37:18 PM
If that is correct Stig it is totally disgusting.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: cosworth151 on September 07, 2008, 05:40:02 PM
What a crock of crap! Lewis dropped back to second after that and then re-passed Kimi. Ferrari International Assistance strikes again!
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Chameleon on September 07, 2008, 06:13:09 PM
Let us hear no more crap from Ferrari fans that the FIA is not biased towards their team.  Hamilton did all that was required by the rules in the Spa GP and is still penalised, Massa is released from his pit lane another car in Valencia and receives a paltry and illegal fine - if that is not a deliberate attempt to ensure that Ferrari and one of its drivers wins the championships this year, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Steven Roy on September 07, 2008, 08:09:06 PM
Ferrari International Assistance to the rescue again.  Absolutely ludicrous interpretation of the facts. 

Given the nonsensical precedent set at the last race McLaren gained no sporting advantage since Kimi stuck his car in the wall.  So Lewis would have won anyway.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: johnbull on September 07, 2008, 09:00:48 PM
The Ma FIA is sick.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Scott on September 08, 2008, 10:30:04 AM
I don't know what I would do if I were Ron.  It must be just exhausting knowing how much work they do to create a great car, even with all the restrictions they're under (financial and technical) and then have the rug pulled out from under them every few races by the FIA.  I know I am pretty sick of it.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: cosworth151 on September 08, 2008, 02:16:02 PM
I think this sums it up very well. It's titled "The weekend racing died."

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080908114903.shtml
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Scott on September 08, 2008, 08:25:33 PM
I saw on another forum someone saying that Lewis should have let Kimi through "properly". 

Just what IS properly?  After cutting the chicaine, he slowed (ok, did not accelerate as quickly as Kimi - technically he didn't 'slow') to let Kimi past and then went down the other side of him to make the pass into the hairpin.  Kimi's car was not good in the wet, that much was obvious judging by the previous couple of laps, so it is likely that the McLaren already had an advantage (but that's probably against the rules, isn't it), not one gained by cutting the chicaine.  Even though they were wheel to wheel, Kimi gave him absolutely no room to stay on the track, so he had no choice but to cut the corner.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Alianora La Canta on September 08, 2008, 11:49:39 PM
According to Article 30.3, there is no "properly" - if you leave the track, you can be penalised whatever you do. The trouble is that years of precedent contradict what the FIA has done.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Scott on September 09, 2008, 10:13:51 AM
Really?  Just leaving the track can draw a penalty?  I had no idea.  I thought leaving the track in most cases was penalty enough.  If you are able to get back on, then good for you - penalty served.  Cutting a chicaine is another story of course, but I thought they would be specific about that. 

I have a great idea.  Have big bags of soap suds nailed to the ground across all chicaine's so if someone cuts one, they will blast through them, and then take a few hundred metres to clear their vision, allowing anyone else around them an advantage.   :D
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Steven Roy on September 09, 2008, 12:48:59 PM
I like the idea Scotty but the FIA won't implement it unless there is an override button in case a Ferrari goes through the suds.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: rmassart on September 09, 2008, 04:27:23 PM
Here's an interesting interview with Lauda about that. Maybe he should be the technical adviser to the stewards.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/7604776.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/7604776.stm)
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: johnbull on September 09, 2008, 06:37:07 PM
That article about not being allowed to go off the track is nonsense.

So why are they constantly building tracks with massive run off areas if you're not allowed to use them.

Perhaps Max prefers drivers to hit barriers.

What a load of absolute nonsense.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: TheStig on September 09, 2008, 06:40:36 PM
You can all sign a petition against this ruling at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?belgp08

TheStig
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Scott on September 09, 2008, 07:39:15 PM
That article about not being allowed to go off the track is nonsense.

So why are they constantly building tracks with massive run off areas if you're not allowed to use them.

Perhaps Max prefers drivers to hit barriers.

What a load of absolute nonsense.

I bet when they started paving to stop the cars from flipping and to scrub off more speed if they were on their way to hit the barriers, they never imagined that people would use them to their advantage and create new racing lines.  Give credit to the drivers though.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: TheStig on September 09, 2008, 07:44:27 PM
I bet you have not signed yet?

TheStig
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: TheStig on September 09, 2008, 08:24:00 PM
Hamilton overtake - Spa 08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzKMyFCaZy0

TheStig
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Steven Roy on September 09, 2008, 08:49:23 PM
It is not even as if Lewis was the only driver to go off.  Kimi went very wide on one of the fast left handers and went way out into the run off and gained time.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Scott on September 09, 2008, 09:11:48 PM
I bet you have not signed yet?

TheStig

Of course I have.  My comment was not to condone off track racing, just that the drivers (and/or teams) have once again found a new way to take advantage.  Good for them.

I still think Lewis' penalty was a complete joke.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: TheStig on September 09, 2008, 10:35:21 PM
Five reasons Hamilton should be thanking the Spa stewards

Winning Belgium is dangerous for Championship contenders
Lewis Hamiltonís cruelly-revoked victory in Belgium may represent the demise of Formula 1 as we know and love it, but itís quite possible decision has worked in the young Swiss driverís favour. In fact,  the handsome devils over at chickendinner suggests that the next time Hamilton sees the three stewards who felt the need to reward Ferrariís misfortune, he should give them all a hug.

Hereís why:

1. Only four of the last 14 Belgian Grand Prix winners have gone on to win the Drivers Championship.

2. The last two British winners there - Damon Hill in 1998 and David Coulthard in 1999 - have failed to finish on the podium in the remaining races that season.

3. Felipe Massa has never won three consecutive races, which means he wonít be victorious in Monza this weekend.

4. The next three races are the Italian, Singapore and Japanese Grands Prix. While the Singapore race is new, McLaren won at Monza and Fuji last season.

5. Massa took just 17 points from the Italian, Japanese, Chinese and Brazilian Grands Prix last year - the four races from this yearís final five that were present on last seasonís calendar.

http://www.gridcrasher.com/index.php/2008/09/09/five-reasons-hamilton-should-be-thanking-the-spa-stewards

TheStig

Thanks for posting Steven Roy

Keep posting,who knows this could be for the championship?
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Willy on September 09, 2008, 10:59:32 PM
As unpopular as it may be, the view that Hamilton did gain an advantage from cutting the chicane is, in my view, correct.
He did slow slightly to allow Kimi to pass but as soon as his front wheels were behind Kimi's, he accelerated into his slipstream and used that to slingshot past.
He was close before the chicane but not as close as he let himself be after he had to give way.
A ten spot grid penalty at Monza may have been more fitting but the stewards do have the final say on race day.  If Heikki hadn't wanked his way off the start he may have been the driver to gain from Lewis's 25 second penalty, not Massa.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Dare on September 10, 2008, 04:30:32 AM
If you look strictly at what happened Willy brings up
some good points.

My only fault is what would have happened if it had been
Kimi and noy Lewis,would he have received the same penality?
                    I think not
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Steven Roy on September 10, 2008, 01:14:09 PM
Quote
Thanks for posting Steven Roy

Posting what Stig.  You have lost me on this one.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Scott on September 10, 2008, 05:57:02 PM
As unpopular as it may be, the view that Hamilton did gain an advantage from cutting the chicane is, in my view, correct.
He did slow slightly to allow Kimi to pass but as soon as his front wheels were behind Kimi's, he accelerated into his slipstream and used that to slingshot past.

Slipstream?  Watch again.  If he is in Kimi's slipstream it was for a tiny fraction of a second as Kimi was all over the place trying to defend and Lewis was cutting back and forth to try to get by.  No chance for aero to take place.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Ian on September 10, 2008, 09:40:49 PM
Martin Whitmarsh stated that, "We asked Race Control to confirm they were comfortable that he allowed Kimi to pass. They(Race Control)said twice that they believed that the position had been given back in a manner that was OK." He added "If Race Control had expressed any concern regarding Lewis's actions at that time we would have instructed Lewis to allow Kimi to repass for a second time."


I think that says it all, Kimi crashed so they then decided to hammer Lewis. FOUL
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: johnbull on September 10, 2008, 10:36:42 PM
So Lewis Hamilton gets a 25 second penalty for driving off the track once at Spa.

All very well if that's what the rules say. But by the same argument shouldn't Massa have got a life sentence at Silverstone?

Same old story. One set of rules for the red cars and another set for the rest.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Shell on September 10, 2008, 10:43:04 PM
You can all sign a petition against this ruling at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?belgp08

TheStig

I can't believe how many people are signing this, i signed it at 9am this morning and i was number 30738

now its up to 45651

thats nearly 15000 people in 14 hours.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: TheStig on September 11, 2008, 08:33:05 PM
Hamilton vs Raikkonen SPA 2008

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CvnAKtCL27s

TheStig
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: johnbull on September 11, 2008, 08:37:52 PM
Has anybody read or heard Massa's comments during the Thursday press conference?

Coming from a driver who has spent more time grass tracking in the last 3 seasons than any other driver on the F1 grid, it leaves me speechless.
Title: Re: Lewis Hamilton (McLaren) has been demoted from first place to third place
Post by: Willy on September 11, 2008, 08:41:27 PM
You may be correct ScottyD about the slipstream. But it did give Lewis an advantage to be that close to Kimi after the pass. The stewards probably slammed Lewis harder after seeing Kimi hit the wall as they may have felt he was shaken by the incident with Lewis.
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