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F1 News & Discussions => F1 Teams => Topic started by: Wizzo on August 15, 2006, 01:53:38 PM

Title: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: Wizzo on August 15, 2006, 01:53:38 PM

Mercedes-Benz is poised to buy the McLaren team, according to German reports.

It is claimed that the German carmaker is set to up its existing stake in the Woking based squad from forty to up to seventy or eighty per cent, with Mercedes' Norbert Haug to possibly take over from Ron Dennis at the helm.

Mercedes is dissatisfied with the silver collaboration's lack of championship success since 1999, despite consistently delivering perhaps the biggest budget in pit lane.

The report also said that Mercedes, whose rumoured buyout would cost an estimated $380 million, is encouraged by BMW's progress since its rival German carmaker took over Sauber.

Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: Wizzo on August 21, 2006, 09:31:53 AM
A spokesman for Mercedes-Benz has contradicted rumours that German Norbert Haug could soon succeed Ron Dennis as boss of the McLaren team.

"Ron Dennis is and will remain Team Principal,"

Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: raindancer on June 26, 2007, 12:38:12 PM
They already own close to 40% and will do the deal in a round about way which allows for Ron to remain the Team Principal. Its just a matter of time. The Car manufacturers are taking over.
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: rmassart on June 26, 2007, 01:14:08 PM
The Car manufacturers are taking over.

Sadly.... what will happen when shareholders vote not to spend hundreds of millions on a pursuit with little real benefit to the bottom line?
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: f1box on June 26, 2007, 01:26:57 PM
Are we witnessing the deaththrows of F1?

There will be no waiting hoardes of Garagistes, to take up the mantle (as in the 50's), when the manufacturers inevitably pullout. The cost of entry and ongoing technology involved is to high.

David
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: Dare on June 26, 2007, 02:40:18 PM
Makes you want to return to the f1 of
the 80's before the cars were plastered
with sponsor logos.

And the private teams we'll never see again
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: f1box on June 26, 2007, 02:59:05 PM
Makes you want to return to the f1 of
the 80's before the cars were plastered
with sponsor logos.

And the private teams we'll never see again

Pre-Pre Qualifying, Engines which blew up with 3 kilometres to go, cars which could make up 2 seconds a lap on the leaders beacuse they looked after their tyres better - Yes please!

David
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: Dare on June 26, 2007, 03:08:54 PM
Makes you want to return to the f1 of
the 80's before the cars were plastered
with sponsor logos.

And the private teams we'll never see again

Pre-Pre Qualifying, Engines which blew up with 3 kilometres to go, cars which could make up 2 seconds a lap on the leaders beacuse they looked after their tyres better - Yes please!



David

I meant the 60's,[no sponsor logos]but the 70's and 80's
were great.The driver skills actually determined who won
races

Take away all the tech. and let them race
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: f1box on June 26, 2007, 03:52:36 PM
I'd take the 60's as well - as long as we could do away with the fatality rate!

David
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: johnbull on June 27, 2007, 10:38:05 PM
I'd take the 60's as well - as long as we could do away with the fatality rate!
David

Interesting point. If the cars were built with today's materials and technology but didn't have the electronic aids. If they raced with steel disc brakes that stopped depending solely on how hard you pressed the pedal. And if gear levers went back to being proper gear levers and you needed to depress a proper clutch pedal to change up or down a gear. And if throttles were operated by cables and not by computers. And if ...........................................dream on JB. :(

Permission to go OT?  My son's racing car is all electronics, and i really haven't got the foggiest idea where to start. I know it that if it's running rich i take my box of jets out and put a smaller main jet in. Right?

Not today it isn't. Today, if it's running rich you take out your lap top and plug it in !

We had a session of this some weeks ago. A couple of lads came along armed with lap tops, lamda sensors, and other gadgets I know little about. I must say I was fascinated. At least they were decent enough to explain it all slowly to an old man.

And i'll tell you what, by the time they'd finished, the car was visibly better and quicker.
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: Chameleon on June 28, 2007, 03:19:54 AM
To return, very briefly, to the original topic: Yes, Mercedes will buy out McLaren eventually, probably when the Ronster retires (and not when the gossip in the German press gets strong enough).

And so to the nostalgia.  I am tempted to agree that a return to the sixties would fix everything but my natural tendency to see the other point of view insists that it just ain't that easy.  For a start, we might get into trouble from the historic guys for pinching their formula.

But also we should remember that we old farts always think the old days were best; those younger than us never saw those days and see nothing wrong with the way things were when they started watching.  I think it's inevitable that F1, by its very nature, must always press forward into an unknown technical future.  Looking at the FIA's proposals for rule changes released today, that future looks very strange indeed (except the possibility of 1.5 litre engines again - at last they see the light!  I love little screamers...) - but it's the way things seem to be going and I have no doubt that the engineers and designers will somehow produce amazing creations even from such odd regulations.  It just won't be the world we know, that's all.

There comes a time in every generation's life when it has to hand over to the next.  I'm not saying that time has come, and we can keep fighting for common sense as long as we're alive and kicking; but a simple return to the days of our youth just isn't going to happen.

Maybe we should start a new thread on the proposed rule changes.  I haven't had a good rant in ages...  ;)
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: raindancer on June 28, 2007, 06:07:30 AM
Makes you want to return to the f1 of
the 80's before the cars were plastered
with sponsor logos.

And the private teams we'll never see again

Pre-Pre Qualifying, Engines which blew up with 3 kilometres to go, cars which could make up 2 seconds a lap on the leaders beacuse they looked after their tyres better - Yes please!



David

I meant the 60's,[no sponsor logos]but the 70's and 80's
were great.The driver skills actually determined who won
races

Take away all the tech. and let them race

I quite agree. These days the Car construction has way too much influence over the results. I would like to see drivers in similar machinery and the better driver wins. Guess its like that in most sports.
The better player wins whether it is Tennis, Athletics or anything.
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: johnbull on June 28, 2007, 09:12:04 AM

Maybe we should start a new thread on the proposed rule changes.  I haven't had a good rant in ages...  ;)

I can see that it didn't take you too long to settle in here, in our new home. :yahoo:
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: rmassart on June 28, 2007, 09:20:04 AM
I quite agree. These days the Car construction has way too much influence over the results. I would like to see drivers in similar machinery and the better driver wins. Guess its like that in most sports.
The better player wins whether it is Tennis, Athletics or anything.

I kind of disagree with this. Car construction has always been the main factor in the results. If you had a shoddy car in the 1960s you were as likely to win as in 2007 with a shoddy car. The thing is that in the 1960s mechanical failures were far more common leading to more unexpected results. Didn't Schumi go more or less his entire Ferrari career without an engine failure - or least in the 5 seasons he was champion? That was unheard of even 10 years ago.

The truth is that the range in quality across the grid has been reduced significantly in the last few decades in my opinion. In the 1960s everything was new to more or less everyone. Now we have over 50 years of F1 experience to draw on. F1 is a technological sport (unlike say Athletics) and you cannot take this out of the equation. If the engineers at McLaren produce such a fantastic car then surely they deserve to win. If we just have everyone in the same car, then yes the racing might be closer (not sure though), but having one manufacturer is not what F1 is about. There's other formulas for that.
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: raindancer on June 28, 2007, 01:02:52 PM
Point Taken. So how do we know for a certainty "who is the best driver" Put Sato in a Mclaren or even a Webber/Ralf /Trulli / Barrichello / Button and they probably would be winning too.
How do we ever figure out driver skill ?
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: Chameleon on June 28, 2007, 02:18:29 PM

Maybe we should start a new thread on the proposed rule changes.  I haven't had a good rant in ages...  ;)

I can see that it didn't take you too long to settle in here, in our new home. :yahoo:

Oh, the rant will come, John, you can count on that.  All it will take is for someone to start bowing and scraping to the global warming freaks and I'll be spurred into action!  ;)
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: rmassart on June 28, 2007, 07:14:14 PM
Point Taken. So how do we know for a certainty "who is the best driver" Put Sato in a Mclaren or even a Webber/Ralf /Trulli / Barrichello / Button and they probably would be winning too.
How do we ever figure out driver skill ?

In truth, this question can never be answered in F1. F1 is about driver AND machine, not just the driver. I know we would all like to find an answer to this question, but the only way to know for sure is to have everyone in the same car, engine and team (including mechanics and team strategies) - there's so much more to winning an F1 race than simply being the fastest. Kimi knows all about this I would guess!
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: johnbull on June 28, 2007, 07:47:43 PM
- there's so much more to winning an F1 race than simply being the fastest. Kimi knows all about this I would guess!

I vote this the quote of the day. :good:
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: Steven Roy on June 29, 2007, 09:02:21 PM
Bring back the BMW M1 Procar championship and make all the drivers race not just the top six.  All the drivers in equal cars.

I think it is a certainty that Mercedes will buy McLaren and Ron will be only to happy to take all their money.  I am sure the deal that Manssour Ojjeh and Ron did with the Dubai company was just a way of upping the price and speeding up the offer.  The McLaren Technical Centre must look very attractive to the bean counters.  An F1 team with a very serious measurable physical asset and production car manufacture has to be more attractive than an F1 team in a glorified industrial estate whose biggest asset is people with two years to go on their contracts.  Ron is an operator on the grand scale.
Title: Re: Mercedes to buy McLaren
Post by: Ian on June 29, 2007, 09:08:28 PM
Possible example :2 times WDC, young pretender, identical cars, who's on top.