GPWizard F1 Forum

F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Dare on July 12, 2009, 05:08:57 PM

Title: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Dare on July 12, 2009, 05:08:57 PM
Rubens should remember how fortunate he was to even have a ride
this year and put a sock in it


Sunday 12th July 2009   PlanetF1

Team bosses past and present have questioned whether Rubens Barrichello will continue as a Brawn driver after his astonishing outburst against the team following the German GP.

As they dissected the Barrichello rant in the BBC studio, both Sir Frank Williams and Eddie Jordan offered strong criticism of the Brazilian.

"I thought it was just appalling," declared Jordan, who was Barrichello's team boss during his active days in F1. "He has brought the team into disrepute. It is a very sad situation."

Williams' words were, unsurprisingly given his position in the sport, more measured, but he described Barrichello's criticism of Brawn as "a red-card job".

Pressed on whether he would dismiss Barrichello if the veteran was his driver, Williams replied: "I would swallow my pride and try to make it up. But it couldn't be tolerated again."
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: John S on July 12, 2009, 05:59:19 PM

I think poor old Rubens sees conspiracy where there is none, but his outburst is unforgivable.

Other teams have made much bigger mistakes on stategy, if that is what this is, on a regular basis this season; so sh*t happens and Rubens needs to get a grip.

I don't think the strategy was wrong seeing how the Brawns ate through their tyres and they had a fuel rig problem as well. Rubens failed to make headway in his 2nd & 3rd stints so he is as much to blame for the lower points finish. Jens just seems to be able to put in that little bit extra when it is critical and thats why he is out in front in the WDC. All in all I think 5th and 6th is the best they could have got today.

Team bosses understand the hot headed reactions from young inexperienced drivers, or close WDC contenders, over this sort of thing but with his maturity Rubens should know better.

He will probably see the season out with Brawn but after this he can expect the whole team to unite around Jens to make sure he becomes WDC. Rubens has probably made sure that what he is complaining about will now come to be his regular treatment.


Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Scott on July 12, 2009, 09:44:40 PM

Team bosses understand the hot headed reactions from young inexperienced drivers, or close WDC contenders, over this sort of thing but with his maturity Rubens should know better.


I suppose Rubens has been one of the more immature drivers 'post race' during his entire career.  At Ferrari he certainly had a contract that forbid him from nay-saying the team (I think both he and Schumi did, and had their comments analyzed by that pretty blonde always holding the voice recorder beside them during interviews), but ever since leaving Ferrari he has been one of the whiniest drivers on the grid whenever the slightest thing didn't go his way.  

Ross has shown that he has far more class than Rubens by not simply dismissing him as a whiner and outright declaring that they will not be having any negotiations with him this year for any further contracts...however like you, I agree that he may well be thinking that privately.

When I saw Button warming his tires while keeping up to Rubens just before Rubens last pit stop, I was chuckling to my buddy that Rubens is going to be really p*ssed when Button passes him during the pit stops...and sure enough, he was.  Poor Ruby.  Now go and retire...or better yet, quite next race and let them throw the Ant in there as tail gunner.  He'll appreciate everything the team does for him, unlike Barrichello.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Jericoke on July 13, 2009, 12:48:25 AM
I'm sure Rubens will land at a new team.

Who wouldn't want a GP winner at a discount rate?

As for any unfortunate outbursts, those will be seen as 'any press is good press' by a last place team.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Willy on July 13, 2009, 01:36:52 AM
Time for Rubens to slip quietly back to Brazil and teach karting to the kids.
Ross will drop him at the end of the season for sure and I doubt he will get a seat next year.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: FW14B on July 13, 2009, 08:43:48 AM
Rubens' outbursts were a bit embarrassing, but I guess it is somewhat inevitable he feels paranoid given his Ferrari years.  It is all just a bit unfortunate.  His team made a mistake (although I can think of more serious mistakes by other teams made this season- my lot especially have had a fair few c*ck-ups) but once again he seemed to lack pace when he needed it whereas Button would put down the big laps when it counted. 
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: monty on July 13, 2009, 09:00:43 AM
There is absolutely no excuse for Rubens. Even in minor teams there is a golden rule, never blame the team in public.
I have always liked Rubens but I honestly believe he should be fired for this outburst. I'm out of touch with who the current Brawn test driver is, but they could put the test driver or any one from a list of aspiring young talent or indeed some old hands like Davidson in that car as a clear number 2 to Button and still have a good chance of getting the Constructors championship.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Scott on July 13, 2009, 09:26:54 AM
There is absolutely no excuse for Rubens. Even in minor teams there is a golden rule, never blame the team in public.
I have always liked Rubens but I honestly believe he should be fired for this outburst. I'm out of touch with who the current Brawn test driver is, but they could put the test driver or any one from a list of aspiring young talent or indeed some old hands like Davidson in that car as a clear number 2 to Button and still have a good chance of getting the Constructors championship.
They don't have a test driver, but Ant is the official reserve driver, so they wouldn't even have to do up a contract.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: SennaMan on July 13, 2009, 09:43:44 AM

oh my:

"....bye bye blackb....Barrichello!"
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: cosworth151 on July 13, 2009, 12:56:34 PM
Ant was there on the BBC with Eddie Jordan and David Coultard when they were talking with Sir Frank. I was waiting for a voice from off-camera to say, "Ant, phone call for you from Ross."

Sir Frank did say that Barrichello "sounds like a driver that doesn't have a ride next season."

One thing on Rubens' behalf: At that time, right after the race, I'm not sure he knew about the fuel rig failure. Right after the stop, he was on the radio saying that he thought that they had fueled him to the end of the race.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: monty on July 13, 2009, 01:28:54 PM
Quote
One thing on Rubens' behalf: At that time, right after the race, I'm not sure he knew about the fuel rig failure. Right after the stop, he was on the radio saying that he thought that they had fueled him to the end of the race.

Even so, he was being paid a lot of money to drive a very good car into the points. He should have kept his mouth shut or at the very least checked the facts first.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: johnbull on July 13, 2009, 11:24:44 PM
I think Ross summed it all up in his own inimitable style when he informed Rubens that he had the 11th fastest lap time - not quite the pace to win G Ps.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: mrkjf on July 14, 2009, 08:22:07 AM
No excuse for the outburst in public,to overtake in Germany is a task in itself and i believe that Button was weeving to let Rubens that the team expect him to move over and it had nothing to do with keeping heat into the tyres,it wasnt the parade lap now was it.He couldnt pass Rubens on the track so the TEAM set him up on pit stop stratergy.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Scott on July 14, 2009, 10:50:51 AM
Maybe while he was behind Rubens, Button thought it was almost like a parade lap.  I seriously think he was warming his tires for the upcoming two laps he had to put in to pass Rubens in the pits.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: John S on July 14, 2009, 01:31:28 PM

Most teamates who are holding the other guy up realise that they have to move over unless they will be giving away points from a leading position in the championship, it's a no brainer surely. Especially when there is a potential threat from cars behind catching and taking the both of them, it's a team game after all.

The only exceptions of course is when the team boss want's a particular driver to win to please the sponsors, Eddie Jordan favoured this style along with Ferrari and no doubt others.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Jericoke on July 14, 2009, 01:36:10 PM

Most teamates who are holding the other guy up realise that they have to move over unless they will be giving away points from a leading position in the championship, it's a no brainer surely. Especially when there is a potential threat from cars behind catching and taking the both of them, it's a team game after all.

The only exceptions of course is when the team boss want's a particular driver to win to please the sponsors, Eddie Jordan favoured this style along with Ferrari and no doubt others.

Well, given how white those Brawns are, and the fact that Branson is going elsewhere, we can say with certainty that they're not trying to please sponsors.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: SennaMan on July 14, 2009, 04:27:27 PM
Ant was there on the BBC with Eddie Jordan and David Coultard when they were talking with Sir Frank. I was waiting for a voice from off-camera to say, "Ant, phone call for you from Ross."

Sir Frank did say that Barrichello "sounds like a driver that doesn't have a ride next season."

One thing on Rubens' behalf: At that time, right after the race, I'm not sure he knew about the fuel rig failure. Right after the stop, he was on the radio saying that he thought that they had fueled him to the end of the race.

cossie, during the race i clearly heard his team telling him on the radio he was short fueled due to the back-up fuel system not working properly

mind you that could have been programmed in to get ole ruebens back in and allow jenson to sneak through

but would dear old ross have allowed that or ordered it?

mmmmmm, stranger things have happened methinks as after all jenson was faster and RB was not taking the hint implied in JB's weaving, was he?

Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: cosworth151 on July 14, 2009, 04:41:00 PM
I heard that, too, SM. I'm just not sure that Barrichello always "hears" what he's told. ;)

If I understand correctly, when a fuel rig fails, the team switches to their other car's rig. Since they are computer controlled, Button's rig might have already been set for the amount of fuel that JB was to receive.

This video is from the 2006 season highlights DVD. It explains how the rig works. And,it's really cool! :yahoo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEzouwTVFOo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEzouwTVFOo)
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: SennaMan on July 14, 2009, 05:42:03 PM
I heard that, too, SM. I'm just not sure that Barrichello always "hears" what he's told. ;)

If I understand correctly, when a fuel rig fails, the team switches to their other car's rig. Since they are computer controlled, Button's rig might have already been set for the amount of fuel that JB was to receive.

This video is from the 2006 season highlights DVD. It explains how the rig works. And,it's really cool! :yahoo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEzouwTVFOo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEzouwTVFOo)

great find cossie, and after viewing it  I am convinced RB was set up, as the video shows a fuel technician on a controlling PC alters the load of fuel before it flows

poor ole ruby
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 15, 2009, 01:10:52 AM
Speed showed Rubens stop. They tried to get his rig in the car but nothing happened, so they switched rigs. I don't know how it was programmed but if it was set for 2 laps less for Jenson, then Rubens was 2 laps short. Regardless, if you want to stay on with the team, you don't open your mouth until you speak with Ross and get your facts straight.

Lonny
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Alianora La Canta on July 15, 2009, 07:28:33 PM
David Coulthard once observed that Ron Dennis must have had brain fade to go to the press and claim DC had had "brain fade" to start badly before checking with the team (who on that occasion would have told him that faulty electronics were to blame).

It may be worth telling Rubens that the same applies to drivers who implicitly accuse their teams of having brain fade before consulting with said team.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Willy on July 16, 2009, 02:15:06 AM
Quote
Most teamates who are holding the other guy up realise that they have to move over unless they will be giving away points from a leading position in the championship, it's a no brainer surely. Especially when there is a potential threat from cars behind catching and taking the both of them, it's a team game after all.

Rubens has been around long enough to know you should move over and let your team mate  through if he is ahead in points and has a faster car. (or is just a better driver)
He did enough of it at Ferrari.
But may be that what gets him, feeling that he had too....

But that's what being a team player is all about, and that is what Ross is paying him to do.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Scott on July 16, 2009, 12:08:28 PM
Why is Rubens the only one in the world who didn't realize that he was graciously kept on when Brawn took over simply because Ross knew he was a good tailgunner?  Ross could have thrown Davidson in there, but he was too much an unknown, so he (probably reluctantly) decided to keep Rubens where he was.  Will someone please tell Rubens that he was not hired to win the championship, or even get close to it, but simply to be a solid backup to Jensen's drive? 
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Alianora La Canta on July 18, 2009, 02:18:40 PM
Neither driver was hired to take the championship - survival was the only thing on Brawn's radar at the point when they got the most recent version of their contracts. Barrichello has good technical know-how and can keep a decent pace; I don't think his abilities relative to Jenson were considered because Brawn just needed two good drivers at that point.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Jericoke on July 18, 2009, 08:49:17 PM
Neither driver was hired to take the championship - survival was the only thing on Brawn's radar at the point when they got the most recent version of their contracts. Barrichello has good technical know-how and can keep a decent pace; I don't think his abilities relative to Jenson were considered because Brawn just needed two good drivers at that point.

I don't think many people would dispute they were the best F1 drivers who weren't under contract when Brawn came about.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Dare on July 18, 2009, 09:37:35 PM
Neither driver was hired to take the championship - survival was the only thing on Brawn's radar at the point when they got the most recent version of their contracts. Barrichello has good technical know-how and can keep a decent pace; I don't think his abilities relative to Jenson were considered because Brawn just needed two good drivers at that point.

I don't think many people would dispute they were the best F1 drivers who weren't under contract when Brawn came about.


The fact they had help develop the car was the main reason
both were kept.I don't think anyone had any idea they would
be so dominating in the early races
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Scott on July 18, 2009, 10:46:09 PM
I agree, Dare.  Which Also points out the fact that Ross and both drivers likely had access to the tylemetry and times during the developement.  Why then is Rubens so surprised that he is the tailgunner?  Certainly Button had the lead in all the test sessions.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 19, 2009, 07:47:22 AM
Test sessions are often about other things than just turning the fastest lap possible. Rubens may not have gotten the OK to do a simulated qualifying run. I doubt he thought Jenson was going to go on a tear. He seems to have backed off on his criticisms anyway. If he can suck it up and post a win or two he'll probably be OK.

Lonny
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Jericoke on July 19, 2009, 01:30:29 PM
I agree, Dare.  Which Also points out the fact that Ross and both drivers likely had access to the tylemetry and times during the developement.  Why then is Rubens so surprised that he is the tailgunner?  Certainly Button had the lead in all the test sessions.

Davidson would have been doing testing too, wouldn't he?

So calling for him to replace Rubens should know exactly how he compares in the Honda/Brawn
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Scott on July 19, 2009, 10:49:48 PM
I thought Davidson was dropped by Honda as a test driver at the beginning of last year, so I don't think he ever sat in the Ross Brawn car for 09.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: cosworth151 on July 20, 2009, 12:22:02 PM
Ant has been wearing a Brawn team shirt on the BBC race coverage.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 21, 2009, 08:16:23 AM
Wishful thinking perhaps? I think some form of limited in season testing will return eventually. Toro Rosso is taking a big risk on Jaime without much real knowledge of how he will handle the car.

Lonny
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Jericoke on July 21, 2009, 01:57:02 PM
Wishful thinking perhaps? I think some form of limited in season testing will return eventually. Toro Rosso is taking a big risk on Jaime without much real knowledge of how he will handle the car.

Lonny

It will make for a very odd year in 2010 with 3 new teams who have no ability to test a car that probably won't be competitive out of the gate.  If they were planning to get into a sport with a 45 million cap, they probably won't have the budget to land experienced talent either.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Dare on July 22, 2009, 05:28:06 PM
Ant has been wearing a Brawn team shirt on the BBC race coverage.


I've been wearing my Renault shirt!Still waiting for
that call from Flav to replace Jr
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: John S on July 22, 2009, 05:59:39 PM
It will make for a very odd year in 2010 with 3 new teams who have no ability to test a car that probably won't be competitive out of the gate.  If they were planning to get into a sport with a 45 million cap, they probably won't have the budget to land experienced talent either.

I'm sure the new teams can test next years car at the moment if and when they like, the test ban is on this years team's cars.
Title: Re: Barrichello's future at Brawn already in doubt
Post by: Jericoke on July 22, 2009, 06:27:52 PM
It will make for a very odd year in 2010 with 3 new teams who have no ability to test a car that probably won't be competitive out of the gate.  If they were planning to get into a sport with a 45 million cap, they probably won't have the budget to land experienced talent either.

I'm sure the new teams can test next years car at the moment if and when they like, the test ban is on this years team's cars.

Sure, but then none of the current drivers will be able to test the cars, will they?

Now that is interesting though... if next year's rules are the same as this years, it would forbid current teams from testing next year's car in season, where no such limit exists for the new teams.  Maybe they will have an advantage.

Or maybe they'll be getting a lot of secret visits from Ferrari engineers with some 'suggestions'...
SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
Menu Editor Pro 1.0 | Copyright 2013, Matthew Kerle