GPWizard F1 Forum

F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: John S on September 29, 2009, 01:08:01 PM

Title: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: John S on September 29, 2009, 01:08:01 PM

The comment, in this piece from Autosport, about Lewis taking out a completely rebuilt car and posting purple sector times on the first flying lap shows just how commited he is to both the team and being the complete F1 racer. I wonder how many other drivers on the grid would or could take out a car that has been hastily rebuilt and get straight on it like that. I think we have seen much less than half what Lewis can deliver in F1 so far.

Formula 1 has always been about a fight against the stopwatch. Yet in Singapore, the fight against time took on a whole new meaning again as the paddock battled to sort out its waking hours - and get the body used to eating the wrong food at the wrong time of day.

The majority of people there stuck on European time once again, which meant getting up in the early afternoon and heading for bed in the early hours and sometimes after dawn.

It was also easy to tell people who were working at the F1 race from the locals as they were the only ones saying 'good morning' at four in the afternoon.

The time zone shift was not of much help to members of the McLaren team, however, who were forced to pull off an 'all-dayer' on Friday when it was decided that Lewis Hamilton needed a new chassis prepared.

A problem with the wiring system deep inside the car could not be fixed easily at the track, and the only other option was to get a new car ready. It meant a 20-hour day for the boys in the garage... and Mercedes-Benz chief Norbert Haug had nothing but praise for what they had done.

"I think it is important to mention what the guys in the garage did changing the chassis," said Haug. "When Lewis did his first flying lap afterwards he was immediately posting a purple time. That shows the trust that he had in his team. He had one out lap and then he went for it. That is an absolutely positive sign.

"We were not spot-on on Friday but that changed overnight and I have to say that this is a great achievement. I'm not sure that a lot of teams can do that job overnight."


Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Dare on September 29, 2009, 01:19:07 PM
It's going to be interesting next year when Kimi
arrives
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Scott on September 29, 2009, 02:47:36 PM
I agree.  I don't think Kimi will be bothered, but Hamilton might be if Kimi starts taking some of the spotlight.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: david1275 on September 29, 2009, 07:32:45 PM
Lewis without doubt will be one of the few who truly master racing an F1 car. He will stand along side the names we all know in the hall of fame. For me I like to see him beaten on track as he drives a dreaded silver arrow, especially if the car in front can be red in colour. The fact that he is so good makes that all the more sweet and I honestly believe we have not see the best from him.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Jericoke on September 29, 2009, 10:27:06 PM
I agree.  I don't think Kimi will be bothered, but Hamilton might be if Kimi starts taking some of the spotlight.

I know we don't get lots of F1 coverage and gossip in Canada, but has Kimi ever been in the spotlight?  Of all F1 champs I've seen, he seems to be the least interested in being a celebrity.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: raindancer on October 16, 2009, 03:07:06 PM
IMO Talking about Lewis is like Obama getting the Nobel. This means his speech writers deserve it more.
Lewis has a lot to do , miles to go , lets see !
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: cosworth151 on October 16, 2009, 03:21:06 PM
I think, or hope, that we might be on the eve of a new "Golden Age." There are several young driver that may be greats: Hamilton, Vettel, Kubica, along with Kimi, Alonso and others. I do agree, however, that it's way too early to call any of them the best ever.

I know the right wing media have been trying to bury it, but two years ago, as a Senator, President Obama wrote the "Loose Nukes" bill. It created the process that is now turning Russian nuclear warheads into fuel for civilian reactors.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Jericoke on October 16, 2009, 03:46:56 PM
I think, or hope, that we might be on the eve of a new "Golden Age." There are several young driver that may be greats: Hamilton, Vettel, Kubica, along with Kimi, Alonso and others. I do agree, however, that it's way too early to call any of them the best ever.

I agree the next few seasons look to be extremely competitive, all those drivers could win a championship without being a surprise.

So for purposes of comparison... was Schumacher really one of the greatest, or was he driving in an era where the competition was lesser?
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: raindancer on October 16, 2009, 04:55:01 PM
Schuey was good, very good imo. So was Mika but the schuey years were of absolute dominance of the whole package, Car, Engineers, Money , brains and driving skill.
Schuey was never tested like a FA or even Kimi. Mika was. I rate Mika higher than Schuey.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Jericoke on October 16, 2009, 05:29:25 PM
Schuey was good, very good imo. So was Mika but the schuey years were of absolute dominance of the whole package, Car, Engineers, Money , brains and driving skill.
Schuey was never tested like a FA or even Kimi. Mika was. I rate Mika higher than Schuey.

I think the appearance of Button and Mark Webber as championship contenders, with Fisichella coming out of the woods, shows the cars are more important than the drivers.  I don't think that Button or Webber suddenly got better, or that Fisichella suddenly remembered where the gas pedal is.

Certainly Badoer and Piquet have shown that it's not just the car, you still need a great driver, it's just hard to compare the drivers when their cars are making a bigger difference than their talents.

If Lewis (or Vettel or Alonso or...) goes on to dominate, it's as much a testament to the team they drive for as anything.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: SennaMan on October 18, 2009, 03:56:37 AM
Schuey was good, very good imo. So was Mika but the schuey years were of absolute dominance of the whole package, Car, Engineers, Money , brains and driving skill.
Schuey was never tested like a FA or even Kimi. Mika was. I rate Mika higher than Schuey.

yeah raindancer, but that's how SCHUMACHER was never tested. As you say the complete and superior package he was able to form, or have formed, around him insulated him from being tested

and that is why I have to rate MS higher than MH - as mika did not have michael's organisational skills although he arguably was a more gifted driver.   
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: raindancer on October 18, 2009, 04:40:38 AM
I agree fully Sennaman. MH was more talented , MS more manipulative.  ;)
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Dare on October 18, 2009, 05:07:15 AM
MS never made mistakes until his last year,you could see
little errors he made that let Alonso catch up with him.
Maybe that's why he didn't look for another drive when
Luca forced him out,remember there was the rumor that BMW
offered him a billion dollars to drive
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: raindancer on October 18, 2009, 07:17:23 AM
I heard that too, but doubt if the offer was really made.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: John S on October 18, 2009, 12:27:35 PM
I agree fully Sennaman. MH was more talented , MS more manipulative.  ;)

I really can't see any justification for that statement, over his career MS was always fighting for the podium regularly and in his Benetton and early Ferrari days it's difficult to say he always had the best package.

Michael duelled with oh so many talented Drivers in cars as good as, sometimes better than his, and consistantly kept the pressure on them. Yes it's true that in the latter years he had the best all round team/car/strategy combination but that all came because people love to back a winner.

We can all speculate about what might have been with drivers, but it is the results that show who really acheived.

Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: cosworth151 on October 18, 2009, 04:28:51 PM
The main problem I've always had with Schumacher was his habit of going dirty when the chips were down. He won his first WDC by deliberately wrecking Damon Hill after he had disabled his own car by tagging the Armco. He was booted clear out of the championship in 97. He even muddied his last season at La Rascasse. It's really a shame, because he was good enough to have won without such nonsense.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: raindancer on October 18, 2009, 08:26:03 PM
I agree fully Sennaman. MH was more talented , MS more manipulative.  ;)



Michael duelled with oh so many talented Drivers in cars as good as, sometimes better than his, and consistantly kept the pressure on them. Yes it's true that in the latter years he had the best all round team/car/strategy combination but that all came because people love to back a winner.



[/quote
[/quote
The point is he duelled , who were his partners, Johnny Herbert, Eddie Irvine, Rubens Barrichello. Substitute this with MIka Hakkinen, Jean Alesi  and Jean Alesi , same machinery , same car >
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Scott on October 18, 2009, 08:50:30 PM
The main problem I've always had with Schumacher was his habit of going dirty when the chips were down. He won his first WDC by deliberately wrecking Damon Hill after he had disabled his own car by tagging the Armco. He was booted clear out of the championship in 97. He even muddied his last season at La Rascasse. It's really a shame, because he was good enough to have won without such nonsense.

Exactly.  I think he would have 8+ WDC if he hadn't mucked around.  He didn't need to win at all costs. 
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: raindancer on October 25, 2009, 10:42:04 AM
I am not sure that I agree. IMO during the time Schuey drove, Mika Hakkinen was as good if not better. The thing about MS was the total package and pliants drivers as number 2. He never had an equal driver as his team mate like Lewis.
Infact he chose to retire rather than have Kimi as partner.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Scott on October 25, 2009, 12:43:52 PM
Compliant #2 didn't help win the WDC.  On both occasions (and yes, there were only two on record) when Rubens pulled over for MS, it was not a last race of the season scenario, and MS went on to win the WDC before the last race.  It wasn't even necessary for him to win, it was just that Ferrari wasn't confident enough, or wanted him to wrap up the title early and then give Rubens wins afterwards (which also happened).

And for Hakkinen, there was never as blatant a time as when Mclaren worshipped Hakkinen, which meant that DC was also a very compliant #2.

He was forced to retire or replace Massa, his close friend, which he preferred not to do.  Plus Ferrari gave him a 'consultant' contract worth more than Massa's race drive retainer.  Fear of Kimi may not have played much of a role, and as we can now see with hindsight, likely he had little to fear.

Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Willy on October 27, 2009, 04:30:56 AM
Quote
The main problem I've always had with Schumacher was his habit of going dirty when the chips were down. He won his first WDC by deliberately wrecking Damon Hill after he had disabled his own car by tagging the Armco. He was booted clear out of the championship in 97. He even muddied his last season at La Rascasse. It's really a shame, because he was good enough to have won without such nonsense.
I can't agree more. Schumacher was dirty and did whatever it took to win, at all costs.

For pure driving talent, many drivers have had flashes of brilliance at times, on certain tracks in well set up cars with all the right conditions.

But not one of today's drivers can hold a candle to Clark or Stewart. They could pull together an amazing performance no matter the conditions or the track, cars or weather. In fact in spite of these things.
Hamilton is way to early into his career for anyone to make statments like these about him.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Ian on October 27, 2009, 07:39:44 PM
OMG, here we go again on the hate Schumacher train, don't some of you remember before Schumacher it went even more blatantly, and by the big names too. Schumacher was the best and that's all there is to it.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on October 27, 2009, 09:00:50 PM
MS was never the best. :nono: He won by building a team that spent more, tested more, made deals with suppliers to get equipment optimised for his cars, etc. He dominated because of his package, but when he raced for Merc in the sports car series, he was never the fastest driver on the team. In the same car he was bested by teammates who never made a splash in F1. Remove Todt and Brawn and I think he's lucky to win 1 or 2 championships. Or just give Mika and  Kimi engines that don't blow up every lap or two.

Lonny


Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Ian on October 27, 2009, 10:18:45 PM
Kimi  :nono: he's too inconsistent, does'nt give a hoot about his mechanics. Mika, yes I liked him, but sorry, Michael was the bees knees.  :yahoo:  :P
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: cosworth151 on October 28, 2009, 12:12:58 PM
5 championships for 4 different marques in 7 seasons raced, and 4 of those after he broke his neck in a shunt. Winning almost half of the F1 races he started.

.....and all of this after his 40th birthday!

I'll take Juan-Manuel Fangio!  :yahoo:
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: SennaMan on October 31, 2009, 12:37:41 AM

heck, I will take Sir stirling MOSS thanks, he won everything but a WDC and even then that was because he stood up to the stewards on a mis-ruling for a mike HAWTHORN who then beat him by half or one point.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Ian on October 31, 2009, 09:59:37 AM
That's the trouble with comparing drivers of different era's Sennaman, a team now would'nt allow a driver to do that, also can you imagine what would happen now if a driver done a Graham Hill and got out of his car, walked over to his rivals car, touched the front wheel and shook his head.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: SennaMan on November 01, 2009, 05:20:16 AM
That's the trouble with comparing drivers of different era's Sennaman, a team now would'nt allow a driver to do that, also can you imagine what would happen now if a driver done a Graham Hill and got out of his car, walked over to his rivals car, touched the front wheel and shook his head.

ok Ian, but they might just breathe a sigh of relief it stopped at that and did not escalate into fisticuffs etc.

but things are starting to turn around for lewis and he just might be the favourite now to win another WDC in 2010
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Ian on November 01, 2009, 10:35:27 AM
I certainly would'nt bet against Lewis re-taking the WDC Sennaman, in fact I would'nt mind taking the odds at a bookies now. I think he will re-take it.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Andy B on November 03, 2009, 08:42:56 AM
Surely the MS statistics say it all and remember even Fangio had help. LH is good you do not come into F1 in your rookie year and take a double world champion to the wire without having something special. He has also shown this year that he can fight from the back in an inferior car and still support the team. Vettel also has the potential to be around for a number of years at the top.
I believe that when a driver dominates as MS did it should be admired and enjoyed even if not a driver in you favorite team.
Next year is going to bring another change with no refuelling, no other series refuels so they have all done it before but not in F1 where they run longer and are heavier, so it will be interesting to see who adapts the best. :good:
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: cosworth151 on November 03, 2009, 02:24:14 PM
With regards to Fangio, I have to admit that I've reached the stage in life where I really, REALLY appreciate achievements by older guys.  ;)
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Ian on November 03, 2009, 07:24:18 PM
Your still a young buck Cos, seriously though, even though I was'nt into F1 back in the Hill and Clark days I love watching those and even older ones, those guys really had balls did'nt they.
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on November 04, 2009, 08:47:32 PM
If you can find video from the '30s of the "Silver Arrows", they will scare the crap out of you. BIG horsepower, skinny tires, and hay bales for Safety.

Lonny
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on November 04, 2009, 09:43:24 PM
Found these:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mouEon6ZpE&feature=related
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mouEon6ZpE&feature=related)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH5vtn4SFiQ&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH5vtn4SFiQ&feature=related)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv882qm9y1U (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv882qm9y1U). Wish I could find more.

Lonny
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: Scott on November 04, 2009, 09:50:04 PM
Fantastic Lonny  :good: :good:
Title: Re: Will Lewis become one of the greatest of all time?
Post by: John S on November 05, 2009, 05:36:31 PM

Good stuff Lonny. :good: By God didn't those Auto Unions look ungainly for the time, though it's easy to see now why the rear engined cars could perform so well.


SimplePortal 2.3.6 © 2008-2014, SimplePortal
Menu Editor Pro 1.0 | Copyright 2013, Matthew Kerle