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F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Dare on August 31, 2017, 01:30:48 AM

Title: Monza:summers end
Post by: Dare on August 31, 2017, 01:30:48 AM
My favorite race. Monza has what F1 is all about.There's something special here
that only a few other tracks have. What else could you want...a great track,F1
history,and the beauties of Italy.

Italian GP: did you know?
Michael Schumacher holds the record for the most wins at Monza with five, followed by Nelson Piquet who won on four occasions.
Ferrari are the most successful team at Monza, having won the race 18 times, the most recent of which was with Fernando Alonso in 2010.
Sebastian Vettel’s surprise win at Monza in 2008 for Torro Rosso made him the youngest ever winner of a Grand Prix at 21 years, 2 months and 11 days old.
Juan Pablo Montoya set the fastest lap in a Formula 1 car at Monza in 2004. His time of 1m19.525s was achieved at an average speed of 162.949 m/ph (262.241 km/h)
The circuit is unique on the current Formula 1 calendar for its mix of long straights and slow chicanes. The low downforce circuit puts strain on engines, which are on full power for 80% of the lap, and gearboxes, which are used heavily in the chicanes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBKPxtQVO_Y




https://www.formula1.com/en/championship/races/2017/Italy.html







































Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Scott on August 31, 2017, 05:54:01 AM
I bet Ferrari will be pulling out the stops.  Probably take the damn wings off the cars so they can have the straight line speed to catch the Mercs  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Robem64 on August 31, 2017, 07:43:07 AM
Given this circuit relies on power maybe McLaren should just suffer the grid penalties and fit two engines to each car!
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: cosworth151 on August 31, 2017, 11:40:47 AM
Here are a few numbers:

1950 – The year of the first Italian Grand Prix

68 – The number of official Italian Grands Prix (1980 was the only season in which Monza was not the host)

5 – Michael Schumacher has the most victories in Italy (1996, 1998, 2000, 2003 and 2006)

3 – Championship rivals Lewis Hamilton and Sebastian Vettel have both won three times in Italy

18 – Wins for Ferrari, the most successful manufacturer in Italy (its last win in Italy was 2010)

53 – Number of laps in the 2017 Italian Grand Prix

3.6 miles - Length of the Autodromo Nazionale Monza

1:21.046 – Fastest Lap (Rubens Barrichello, 2004)

42.3 feet – Elevation change


Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Dare on August 31, 2017, 09:25:01 PM
69 Italian GP finish...4 cars racing to the line

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQURylYN13w
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Ian on August 31, 2017, 09:47:07 PM
That's what a finish should look like. Seven years ago I was there with Scott, time has gone too quick.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on September 01, 2017, 07:27:53 AM
A brief history of the famous (or Infamous) Monza banking, rarely used, now preserved.

http://www.circuitsofthepast.nl/en-US/monza-oval (http://www.circuitsofthepast.nl/en-US/monza-oval)
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Scott on September 01, 2017, 10:34:35 AM
That's what a finish should look like. Seven years ago I was there with Scott, time has gone too quick.

 :good: :good:
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: cosworth151 on September 01, 2017, 12:08:19 PM
And now a little pop quiz. 10 questions about the race!

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/autoweek-quick-quiz-so-you-think-you-know-f1-italian-grand-prix
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: cosworth151 on September 01, 2017, 02:22:15 PM
Rumors NBC is reporting from Monza:

1. More talk that McLaren will switch to Renault for next season. Any announcements on engine supplier changes for 2018 must be made by the end of the week-end.

2. Toro Rosso will drop Renault & switch to Honda. When asked about any talks, both Franz Tost and Yusuke Hasegawa used exactly the same phase to brush off questions. Sainz's Renault engine just laid down a smoke screen in FP2.

3. Robert Kubica is a guest of the team in the Renault garage this week end. That has to make Palmer nervous.

4. F2 leader Charles Leclerk will get Friday drive time at Sauber for the rest of the season. Ferrari made the arrangements. My guess is that he'll get Wehrlein's car.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: jimclark on September 01, 2017, 07:25:31 PM
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.
Off topic, I know. But I must, at this time, disagree with your signature.....



A "landing" is not a "controlled crash".  ;)
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
However, a "crash" is an "uncontrolled landing". :P  :D
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Ian on September 01, 2017, 08:26:58 PM
Sorry JC but I stand by my signature, it might be a smoooooth one but it's still hitting the ground.  :P
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Scott on September 01, 2017, 09:04:35 PM
Merc in front but Ferrari really close.  I won't call it a Seb pole position, but just might call him for the race.  Interesting to see Mclaren as the de-facto 4th team ahead of the rest.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Jericoke on September 02, 2017, 02:32:51 AM
Merc in front but Ferrari really close.  I won't call it a Seb pole position, but just might call him for the race.  Interesting to see Mclaren as the de-facto 4th team ahead of the rest.

Yeah... I think some people assumed that McLaren was being held back by the Honda, but I'm wondering if the McLaren is a dog itself.

If I was running a midfield F1 team, I'd certainly take a look at Honda power based on the last few races.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Irisado on September 02, 2017, 10:28:48 AM
It looks as though third practice is going to be washed out and that qualifying is going to be wet as well.  That could mix up the grid order somewhat and make for a more exciting race.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Ian on September 02, 2017, 12:16:04 PM
Weather was a bit better when we were there wasn't it Scott.  :D
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Ian on September 02, 2017, 01:12:12 PM
13min 31sec into quali and red flagged, Grosjean into the barrier and Charlie said it's too dangerous.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: cosworth151 on September 02, 2017, 01:42:02 PM
Grosjean had been complaining over the radio that the track wasn't safe. He lost it on the pit straight. The car just hydroplaned. As of the red flag, he's in P3!

The pavement on the pit straight and the first couple of turns is new. The water is just standing on it. It probably also still has a lot of oil & such coming out of it.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: cosworth151 on September 02, 2017, 03:23:09 PM
Two hours into the rain delay and we have one of the high points of the season. In an effort to fill TV time, one of the camera guys handed his camera over to Danny Ric. He immediately walked into the Mercedes garage and started shooting close ups of their suspension!  :DD
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Ian on September 02, 2017, 05:14:05 PM
I wonder what old Jaques will have to say about Lance stroll now.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Irisado on September 02, 2017, 05:34:53 PM
Not a lot.  He always goes quiet when, yet again, he has been proved wrong.

I listened to the session on the radio, although I am recording Channel 4's highlights programme.  Once it finally got going it was the most interesting qualifying session of the season.  Ferrari will be relieved if it is going to be dry tomorrow, as they didn't have the pace in the wet at all, while Hamilton looked imperious out front.

It's a shame that there are so many penalties to be handed out.  It really make a mockery of qualifying when so many cars are going to be put back on the grid.  I really think that they need to rethink this system.  At least it does have the benefit of bringing some unexpected drivers close to pole.  Stroll will be in a great position, in view of the engine in the back of his Williams, for the race tomorrow, as will Ocon in the Force India.  Either of them could get on the podium if there is any rain around, otherwise, I think that they will both be overtaken by Bottas and the Ferraris.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Jericoke on September 02, 2017, 06:14:04 PM
I wonder what old Jaques will have to say about Lance stroll now.

I'm sure he'll just say he knew it all along, and that 'tough love' was what it took to find greatness.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Ian on September 02, 2017, 06:49:21 PM
I agree Irisado, the penalties have got ridiculous, I mean 35 for Fernando is outrageous.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: cosworth151 on September 02, 2017, 10:05:53 PM
I think even the FIA are realizing what a farce these gigantic grid penalties are.

Quote
Either of them could get on the podium if there is any rain around

There isn't any rain in the forecast for the race. But then, there wasn't any rain forecast for quali, either.  ;)
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Jericoke on September 03, 2017, 02:19:14 AM
I agree Irisado, the penalties have got ridiculous, I mean 35 for Fernando is outrageous.

The Sky broadcasters figured that Van Doorne's total penalties this season added up to a kilometre
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Scott on September 03, 2017, 07:10:56 AM
Yeah, the last 6 places are penalties.  The good part is it will be a bit like an inverted grid.  Let's see how that pans out at the first chicane.  ;)

I'll have my eye on DR to see how long it takes him to get past Max  ;)
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on September 03, 2017, 09:07:45 AM
From that far back into the middle of the pack, Max will be very lucky to make it through the chicane. I see another DNF in his future.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: cosworth151 on September 03, 2017, 11:24:36 AM
I agree, Lonnie. I wonder how many other cars he'll wipe out with him.

The big question on the start is will Cheko be able to catch Ocon in time to take him out at the chicane?
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: cosworth151 on September 03, 2017, 12:55:39 PM
Checko qualified P11, got a 5 place grid penalty, and will end up starting P10! Wonderful system! Why not just draw names out of a hat!
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Scott on September 03, 2017, 09:39:35 PM
Heroes

Lewis, for another stunning, well managed race.  Good for him.  Same goes for Bottas.  Stayed mostly out of trouble at the beginning and drove their celebratory lap in much the same way they drove the race.  Good job boys.

Seb, for as usual, always being there in case something went wrong with the first two.  He wasn't that close this time, but all it would have taken would be a slide into some Monza gravel to have him up a step on the podium.

DR for almost catching Vettel, and for once again showing that he may not be as quick in a sector than Max, he knows how to get through a race with his nose clean and keeps it exciting. 

Stroll for showing the world that it wasn't all luck.  He got to the front on merit and stayed in the points and ahead of a charging teammate. 

Zeroes

FIA and their stupid grid penalty system.  It's meaningless now.  Nothing more than a joke to most serious fans.  Haha, Vandoorne has been penalized a km this year.  Haha, look at the Manors that are given a 10 place grid penalty when they are already starting from the back.  Talk about bringing the sport into disrepute, the FIA has done it this time and they should have their backsides paddled out of their jobs.

Max, for almost proving most of us right who predicted he would have probably DNF causing clashes on his way up from the back.  After hitting Grosjean and Massa, losing a tire and some carbon fibre, getting to 10th shows that a better driver could have brought home at least 5th in the same car.  If I was Horner, I would tell him if he just ONCE more complains about the team or the car, he can go find a ride wherever someone will have him.  I have yet to see the post race interviews, but I imagine he will blame all his problems on the fact the team had to take the penalty.

There were some other moments, but for the most part that is my take on the race.  I missed some of it in the middle (like how did Seb go off track?), but an enjoyable race.



Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Jericoke on September 04, 2017, 04:10:36 AM
Heroes

Dieter Zetsche - how often have we seen him show up in the pits and Mercedes puts in a dreadful performance?  For once he got to see his people put together a flawless weekend.

Podium Interview as a whole.  Lewis did a great job of playing a wrestling style 'heel', appreciating the crowd's boos as a sign of respect and having a little fun with that.  Vettel giving the interview in Italian.

Zeroes

Engine rules as a whole are turning the sport into a bit of a joke.  How many "DNF"s are really just saving engine components to avoid future penalties?  The FIA took a solid step in removing the ridiculous token system... so they're not totally deaf on the issue.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: cosworth151 on September 04, 2017, 01:59:25 PM
Heroes:

Williams: They did well all week end, ending with both cars in the points. Also, NBC reported that Williams asked Jacques Villeneuve to stay away from their hospitality area. They've had enough of his sniping at Lance. Good on them for standing by their driver. It's a big step to tell your last Championship winner to take a hike.

Zeroes:

FIA/FOM: The entire quali-grid penalty this week end was a fiasco. I can't blame Charlie for starting quali when he did. The heavy rain arrived just as the cars rolled out. They should have stopped it sooner. Every driver out there was reporting unsafe conditions.

Then the penalties muddied things up even worse. I couldn't find a list of the grid on line until Sunday morning. The teams were even setting up at the wrong grid spots when the cars rolled out for grid. It's totally ridiculous.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Dare on September 04, 2017, 03:49:04 PM
One of my favorite  racing has become just another
procession with a pass ever so often


Hero's

Hamilton: from the starting line the only thing that
               could beat him was adnf

Max:I stand alone making Max a hero..He didn't cause
        the usual sc was all expected

Stroll: again proving many wrong that says he doesn't deserve
         to be in F1 and for holding off the experienced Massa

Vettle: ran a steady race and finished the best he could have.
           can he make a run at Mercedes the rest the year?

Zero's

Max: for being a spoiled little punk with a foul mouth. Like to
         see him in NASCAR one year with that attitude...well the
         old NASCAR would be better with the old time good ol boys

aero: again proving how they can turn a race with some of the closest
        finishes in the past into a procession.

Jacques: Williams did the right thing asking him to stay away from their
             hospitality tents,now I hope the rest wiill follow suit

Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Scott on September 04, 2017, 05:58:41 PM
I would be ok with JV not being allowed in the paddock.  Might smarten him up or maybe he'll just leave the sport completely and go skiing somewhere.  He's just an annoyance generally.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Robem64 on September 05, 2017, 07:55:46 AM
The one positive is that as a UK viewer, I don't have to suffer the JV ramblings!
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: monty on September 05, 2017, 02:34:54 PM
I'm a bit late on this and agree with most comments here.
Max continues to prove me right about his reckless and arrogant driving. Any driver can look good when they throw the car into a corner passing 2,3 or more cars and are lucky enough to have everyone avoid getting hit by them. However, when luck runs out, that same driver is just seen to be the reckless idiot that they are.
He is fast but I do not think he is as good as a lot of people make him out to be. Ricciardo showed how a good driver goes forward. Some amazing overtakes and all (with the possible exception of the pass on Kimi) safe and controlled.
I also felt both Williams drivers did well.
I am at a total loss to understand what Alonso's problem with Palmer was. I also do not agree with the penalty imposed on Jolyon. Alonso definitely and deliberately run Palmer off the track (Palmer was clearly going to make a successful pass). However, Palmer rejoined the track slightly behind Alonso and then completed the pass. I thought that is what the rules required?
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on September 06, 2017, 03:44:25 PM
Monza technical changes, focusing on Ferrari.

http://en.f1i.com/magazine/magazine-technical/278996-tech-f1i-monza-insight-ferraris-sf70h.html (http://en.f1i.com/magazine/magazine-technical/278996-tech-f1i-monza-insight-ferraris-sf70h.html)
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: Irisado on September 16, 2017, 12:46:34 PM
There was nothing remarkable about that race.  Given how mixed up the grid was, I found it an incredibly tedious race and little of any interest happened.  It was a tour de force by Hamilton, an excellent performance by Mercedes all round in fact, while everyone else finished more or less where I expected.  Max Verstappen has become extremely over confident and his arrogance is becoming insufferable.  I agree with the concerns that are being expressed about his attitude and his driving.
Title: Re: Monza:summers end
Post by: jimclark on April 25, 2019, 03:52:09 PM
Sorry JC but I stand by my signature, it might be a smoooooth one but it's still hitting the ground.  :P

'Been a while, but Dare PM'd me and I reviewed my previous posts.
 
I take it you've not piloted an aircraft. My father taught me to fly at 7 or 8 ('couldn't solo 'til 16) and I guarantee you you are mistaken.
Flying onto the ground (aka a controlled landing) is a far cry from crashing to earth (aka an uncontrolled landing). ;)

(P.S. - Lower case jc rather than caps please. I respect Jim's name.  :))