GPWizard F1 Forum

F1 News & Discussions => General F1 Discussion => Topic started by: Scott on July 29, 2018, 07:24:15 PM

Title: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Scott on July 29, 2018, 07:24:15 PM
Well, I guess we get to spend the summer break debating if Bottas should keep his job or maybe offer it up to Ricciardo.  Seriously, that was shameful.  First Vettel and then Ricciardo?  Like a Rookie in a panic.  Or wingman in a panic?  Thanks Toto, that was a good one.

Heroes

Lewis managed a perfect race, only disappointment was when he took off his helmet to expose that silly haircut and something new and glittery stuck through his eyebrow.  Honestly I couldn’t care a less what he wants to paint or poke his body with, just that it made me go “Ew”.

Vettel might have had a chance if his 5second pit stop was only 3, like it was supposed to be.  I think the Ferrari’s had the speed at the end of the race, if only there had been another 10 laps.

Kimi. Can anyone explain to me why Ferrari would want to replace Kimi with ANYONE?  He just keeps showing up and proving he can take it to Vettel almost every race if the car or pit crew doesn’t let him down.  Today he almost had 2nd and was clearly faster than Vettel for the the last half of the race.  Post race I think that was the first time I’ve ever seen his better half or his son - it was great to see Kimi nearby someone he actually cares about. 

Max’s Renault engine for letting go so Ricciardo could have a bit of good luck for a change and claw back ahead of Max.  A fantastic race for Daniel.

Great races for Gasly and Magnussen and a few more in the midfield, but except for Bottas and his keep position or crash tactics, the race needed to be fast forwarded a bit.

Bottas was the biggest and only notable Zero for me.
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Dare on July 29, 2018, 08:14:51 PM
Agree about Kimi,he's having a great year that could be better
if the powers to be let him. I wouldn't care if Lewis put a plate
in his lips. I's really like to see Perez get a shot at a top team
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Jericoke on July 30, 2018, 04:05:23 AM
I think Bottas did his job.  Vettel cut him off, because of those useless mirrors, and Ricciardo should have been warned that Bottas's car wouldn't be able to keep a racing line. 

Bottas's job was to be tough for Vettel to pass, which he did to a T, and got punted for it.

Maybe Bottas shouldn't have fought Daniel so hard, knowing it was inevitable, but then he'd take flack for giving up when things got tough, so I don't blame him for making things difficult.  Ricciardo should have been more patient to avoid contact.  Given how rough we are on Max for being impatient, we can also blame Seb and Daniel for the same flaw.

But in a fairly straight forward race, maybe Bottas is the closest thing we have to a zero.

That and whatever reason we lost two Renault powered cars.
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: rmassart on July 30, 2018, 06:14:35 AM
I rate Bottas as a Hero, not a Zero. His drive was exceptional, keeping Vettel at bay on worn tyres for a good 25 laps I think.  Whilst possibly more at fault than the other driver I rate both his accidents as racing incidents. The second he should just have given in earlier as it was clear Ricciardo was quicker and Vettel was by then long gone. The first he got squeezed a little by Vettel and lost control after hitting the curb. I think Vettel took a huge risk turning across so sharply. He had tyres to drive 5 meters around Bottas but chose to cut right in front. Not his fault that he got punted, but a huge risk when fighting for the title.

Zeros: Ferrari. A botched pit stop and, worse, poor strategy. Making Vettel weave through 5 or 6 back markers and then bringing him in immediately without giving him a chance to build up a cushion to Bottas again was just very poor. Either call him in just before he hits traffic (and risk the ultras being worn out by a longer stint) or else wait until Bottas hits the same traffic. The softs would presumably have lasted a few more laps.
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Robem64 on July 30, 2018, 07:39:53 AM
Kimi. Can anyone explain to me why Ferrari would want to replace Kimi with ANYONE?  He just keeps showing up and proving he can take it to Vettel almost every race if the car or pit crew doesn’t let him down.  Today he almost had 2nd and was clearly faster than Vettel for the the last half of the race.  Post race I think that was the first time I’ve ever seen his better half or his son - it was great to see Kimi nearby someone he actually cares about. 

And to do all that without a drink either!

Zeros: Ferrari for forgetting to connect Kimi's drink up!
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: lkjohnson1950 on July 30, 2018, 07:42:59 AM
I rate Bottas as a Hero, not a Zero. His drive was exceptional, keeping Vettel at bay on worn tyres for a good 25 laps I think.  Whilst possibly more at fault than the other driver I rate both his accidents as racing incidents. The second he should just have given in earlier as it was clear Ricciardo was quicker and Vettel was by then long gone. The first he got squeezed a little by Vettel and lost control after hitting the curb. I think Vettel took a huge risk turning across so sharply. He had tyres to drive 5 meters around Bottas but chose to cut right in front. Not his fault that he got punted, but a huge risk when fighting for the title.

Zeros: Ferrari. A botched pit stop and, worse, poor strategy. Making Vettel weave through 5 or 6 back markers and then bringing him in immediately without giving him a chance to build up a cushion to Bottas again was just very poor. Either call him in just before he hits traffic (and risk the ultras being worn out by a longer stint) or else wait until Bottas hits the same traffic. The softs would presumably have lasted a few more laps.

I agree. Even Hamilton said he probably wouldn't have won without Bottas holding off Seb.
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Luke on July 30, 2018, 10:33:27 AM
Heroes:
Daniel Ricciardo- For providing some entertainment with his overtakes.

Hamilton- For winning a race that he had no real right to win given the relative pace of the Mercs v the Ferraris. 

Sergio Perez- For being able to race despite the 'other stuff' going on around him

Zeroes:

Ferrari/Vettel certainly seem to be veering towards their 2017 title throw away form which is alarming for them.  Again you would argue they have (at this moment in time) the fastest car yet they are trailing Hamilton again.  They were so on the ball early in the season with strategy that yesterday seemed bizarre.

Bottas- He did have a good race at times, but I do think he was optimistic on Vettel (The Ferrari was ahead, you would expect Seb to shut the door but I do consider this more of a racing incident) and really shouldn't have pushed so hard against Ricciardo, especially on the one part of the circuit where overtakes are a possibility. 

Williams- Again my favourite team stank.     
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Scott on July 30, 2018, 11:13:47 AM
I don’t fault Bottas for doing everything he could to keep both Seb & DR behind, but both times contact was avoidable.  Seb had to turn in at some point and was 95% past Bottas at the apex - the corner was his to take.  On DR, Ricciardo gave Bottas a truck’s width to play with yet Bottas decided to late brake even though he knew his tires were shot and front wing damaged.  I don’t rate that kind of move as a hero.  If it had been Grosjean everyone would have been screaming about it.
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: monty on July 30, 2018, 11:57:58 AM
Difficult to list H's and Z's.
The race was good (makes a change).
Hamilton was amazing in Qualifying and I honestly believe he had the speed to hold off Vettel even it the Ferrari pit stop hadn't lost Seb 2 seconds.
I felt sorry for Bottas - he was forced onto a strategy to cover Kimi which ruined his race. I do think that the contact with Vettel was all Vettel's fault but it was just a racing incident and there was no way Bottas could have held him off much longer. Having said that, Bottas should have given up against Ricciardo. He knew the car was injured and that Ricciardo was much faster.
Ricciardo drove a fantastic race. Kimi did a great job. Alonso was fun to watch again.  The Haas cars got in the points despite a bad strategy. Gasly showed why a lot of people are talking about his future.
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on July 30, 2018, 05:12:39 PM
Heroes:

Danny Ric: A great charge up through the field.

Quali: I didn't get to watch it until Sunday morning. Outstanding!

Zeroes:

Not Bottas: I'm going to give him a pass on both the Vettel & Ricciardo bumps. If anyone was at fault for the first, it was Vettel. On the second, I don't think he'd fully realized how much front downforce he'd lost with the wing damage. The front end just wouldn't turn.

Ferrari pit crew: For Kimi's drinks bottle & Seb's overly long pit stop that let Bottas get by.
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Robem64 on July 30, 2018, 09:28:50 PM
Having read this then maybe Ericsson should be classed as a hero in many races - especially the really hot ones.
No drinks bottle for the last two years - to save weight. Now that's dedication to the cause.

https://wtf1.com/post/ericsson-has-raced-without-a-drinks-bottle-in-his-car-for-two-years/ (https://wtf1.com/post/ericsson-has-raced-without-a-drinks-bottle-in-his-car-for-two-years/)
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Scott on July 31, 2018, 10:42:39 AM
An opinion that is similar, if more detailed, than mine...Mercedes tactics?  Hmmm  :tease:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/45000927
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: John S on July 31, 2018, 11:06:25 AM
Heroes:


Gasly, superb drive after a really good quali effort. Top marks to Honda as well as both STR cars still running at race end.


McLaren strategy dept, surprised most of the mid-fielders and probably themselves with the overcut. Had nothing to lose by trying something different and boy did it pay off.


Bottas, kept Vettel neutralised for so much of the race allowed a straightforward win for Lewis, always compromised by his team using him to cover off Kimi with much too early stop. Fought on until he got the now infamous Vettel chop (ask Webber about Seb's sudden squeezing lunges after a pass, unsporting to say the least or is it worse, a Grosjeanesque lack of spatial awareness?).
Yes I do think the chop was deliberate and totally stupid, Seb was lucky not to get a puncture, I wonder how many like me wish he had?  ;) 
The incident with Danny Ric was a racing incident in my book, Dan's team will have told him that Bottas was wounded and encouraged him to attack as Valtteri was losing so much time. Experienced racers know wounded cars whilst easier targets are unpredictable and caution is the byword, trying to run right round the outside, instead of holding back for the switchback Danny put himself in harm's way. With heavily worn tyres and wing damage on Bottas' car natural physics did the rest.  :D


Zeros:


Ferrari and Seb, whilst Macca strategy was ace some one at the prancing horse got it very wrong, why leave Seb out to lap cars and lose time????? Seb himself for nearly throwing away his 2nd place by chopping across Valtteri's bow so suddenly, could have been puncture or even DNF - why take such stupid risk.  :crazy:

Red Bull, for once again savaging Renault in public not once but twice, Christian you should be ashamed of yourself. Max's outburst is a little more understandable, he was in a good race position when he DNF'd.


Force India and Williams, come on dudes I know Hungary isn't a good track for Merc but you can hardly blame your lowly finishing positions onto the Merc engine, you build the flaming cars yourselves.
Hey maybe that's the answer - incinerate your present cars and start again. Oh no wait - one of you is already nearly bust financially starting over will probably finish the other as well.  :D

STR strategy dept, poor old Brendan got out manoeuvred by some of the other teams using the strategy chosen by his team. The only bright spot the team can't blame him if they put him on a slower race time strategy than the cars around him.


 

         
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Scott on July 31, 2018, 04:41:35 PM
Come on, that was nothing like the chop Vettel did on Webber, no way you can compare it, back in the days when Vettel behaved like Max. 

Nobody knew the condition of Bottas’ car better than Bottas, why is it the job of other teams and drivers to tip toe around him??  Vettel was on the race line while Bottas was never going to successfully complete a late braking maneuver.  Ricciardo passed on the outside with plenty of room for Bottas to even competitively go through the corner with him, again, as long as he wasn’t planning to run deep.  Heaping praise on Bottas after two crashes that he caused is bizarre.
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Luke on July 31, 2018, 06:25:50 PM
I totally agree Scott.  Bottas just got so ragged at the end of the race that I cannot blame Vettel or Ricciardo at all.  Whilst the first incident was more racing incident in my eyes, the move on Ricciardo was just madness and the FIA agreed hence his penalty. 
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: John S on August 01, 2018, 01:06:11 PM
Come on, that was nothing like the chop Vettel did on Webber, no way you can compare it, back in the days when Vettel behaved like Max. 

Nobody knew the condition of Bottas’ car better than Bottas, why is it the job of other teams and drivers to tip toe around him??  Vettel was on the race line while Bottas was never going to successfully complete a late braking maneuver.  Ricciardo passed on the outside with plenty of room for Bottas to even competitively go through the corner with him, again, as long as he wasn’t planning to run deep.  Heaping praise on Bottas after two crashes that he caused is bizarre.


We'll have to disagree then Scott. However my main thrust of argument is both Vettel and Danny Ric could have used the incredible fast thinking & reasoning, that we're told F1 drivers possess, to give Bottas wounded/tyre limited car a wider berth than normal.

To finish anywhere in the points you must first finish!

Risking a DNF, by not giving a bit more room when overtaking in the later stages. is just criminal if you have speed/grip advantage or both.  :P


   
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Scott on August 01, 2018, 01:49:00 PM
I’ll concede that Vettel took a “don’t look back” line into the corner, but DR gave Bottas enough room to scoot inside with enough room leftover for Wizzo to take his Caterham through 3 wide.  Bottas panic attacked and almost took them both out - but I guess what you are saying about first finishing and driver intelligence doesn’t apply to Bottas when he’s on chewed up tires and a broken wing.  Throw it all away just to try desperately to hold on to one more position?   :crazy: :crazy:
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: John S on August 01, 2018, 03:40:13 PM
I also concede Valtteri, who for my money is not WDC material - if he ever wins the championship it will be in a much superior car with a weak/unlucky teammate - shares blame for being over zealous on shredded tyres. He also knew he would lose places and good points in both events, so red mist may have clouded judgement of course.   

However it's because I know both of the other 2 really are world class, I expect much better/clever race craft, and I hope the rest of us do too, than they both displayed when passing Bottas.

I reiterate: - to finish in good points first you must finish!
All world champs will accept that, even JV. 


 
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Alianora La Canta on August 08, 2018, 02:28:17 PM
Heroes

Sergio Perez for putting Force India into administration. Now there's a sentence I'll never type again!

Marcus Ericsson for going above and beyond to make sure every fan (and a bunch of not-really-fans-but-were-in-the-right-place-at-the-right-time) got something signed or a happy memory made, when doing his "Meet the Fans". Some other drivers did as expected, but he went above and beyond.

The energetic fans from all over Europe who congregated on the Hungaroring and made it so much fun to be there. Even when we didn't really have a common language (I don't speak Swedish/Dutch/Polish/Finnish, half the time they didn't speak English (apart from the Finns, who were invariably near-fluent) and nobody spoke Hungarian except the Hungarians themselves), we had motorsport allowing us to converse. And I'll treasure learning the meaning of having pokora forever.

Honourable mention: Kimi for getting through the race with no drink without going to hospital. As someone who failed in that task despite being a) a spectator and b) drinking at least 2 litres of water in the build-up to the race, I salute you.

Zeroes

35 C temperatures and ridiculously high humidity. The many people who drank too much alcohol and were sick afterwards will not thank Hungary for its weather, and I won't thank the weather for my heatstroke either.

Whoever scheduled Valterri Bottas' "Meet the Fans" in such a way that he had to hurry to make qualifying briefing afterwards. It meant he couldn't do it properly, wasn't allowed to sign autographs, had a disrupted preparation for qualifying and may have indirectly wrecked his weekend (if I have interpreted analysis of his subsequent on-track performances correctly). One might argue that racing drivers should be more resilient, but entertainment organisers should remember that we like racing drivers because they are... racing drivers, and plan accordingly.

The people who charged more for 500 ml of water than a pint of beer. Really?!? (I know, there was free water at the toilets and this was the officially-recommended solution... ...but that's no help when you're only allowed to bring one 500 ml bottle to the track and people not using the F1 buses faced a 3.5 km walk back to the train station!)
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: cosworth151 on August 08, 2018, 04:32:32 PM
It sounds like F1 promoters are pretty much the same everywhere. (except central Indiana, of course  ;)  ).

This is the first time ever I can recall Kimi making news for not drinking.
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Scott on August 09, 2018, 11:25:30 AM
The people who charged more for 500 ml of water than a pint of beer. Really?!? (I know, there was free water at the toilets and this was the officially-recommended solution... ...but that's no help when you're only allowed to bring one 500 ml bottle to the track and people not using the F1 buses faced a 3.5 km walk back to the train station!)

Sounds like Monza except no drinking water (or even hand washing water) by any Porto-potties that I saw there.  Spain was much more civilized (proper washrooms), but the beer was more expensive than the water  ;)
Title: Re: H & Z Hungarian GP
Post by: Alianora La Canta on August 10, 2018, 08:07:05 PM
The people who charged more for 500 ml of water than a pint of beer. Really?!? (I know, there was free water at the toilets and this was the officially-recommended solution... ...but that's no help when you're only allowed to bring one 500 ml bottle to the track and people not using the F1 buses faced a 3.5 km walk back to the train station!)

Sounds like Monza except no drinking water (or even hand washing water) by any Porto-potties that I saw there.  Spain was much more civilized (proper washrooms), but the beer was more expensive than the water  ;)

Also, nowadays, the Spanish GP only sells zero-alcohol beer. For those of you planning your holidays...