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Author Topic: Horner calling for rule changes  (Read 1561 times)

Offline Scott

Horner calling for rule changes
« on: January 02, 2016, 01:16:33 PM »
What a surprise.  "We're not winning, so change the rules so we do!"  The cry of every losing team principal. 

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/35195256


The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Ian

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2016, 05:40:03 PM »
Why can't Horner take it like a man. When MS was on his dominant years, I'm sure it was Ron Dennis who said, "It's not up to the FIA to slow him down, it's up to us to catch him up."
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline John S

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2016, 08:31:36 PM »
Why can't Horner take it like a man. When MS was on his dominant years, I'm sure it was Ron Dennis who said, "It's not up to the FIA to slow him down, it's up to us to catch him up."

I'm sure Ron is saying something with a lot more expletives than that at the moment Ian - privately though I grant you.
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Ian

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2016, 09:14:08 PM »
So do I John, but at least he's not publicly slating off Honda.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline Scott

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2016, 09:56:49 PM »
So do I John, but at least he's not publicly slating off Honda.

I would choose Frank Williams as an F1 team principal role model, but you're right Ian, I think it was Ron Dennis who said that.  He's generally never been one to throw blame around, even when the FIA docked them $100m, he was very discreet and basically took the blame himself.
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Ian

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2016, 10:06:28 PM »
Scott, I totally agree about Frank Williams, it's not blood in his veins it's F1.
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2016, 03:15:16 PM »
I totally agree about Sir Frank. I'd also add Peter Sauber.

I side with Ian about Ron. As bad as it was, the 2015 Renault engine was far, far better than the Honda lump. Ron Dennis had enough class to keep any comments about it behind closed doors.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

guest3164

  • Guest
Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2016, 09:10:10 AM »
Horner certainly isn't doing Red Bull any favours in the popularity polls.  They have some great minds and ought really to be able to work their way out of this poor form even if it is with a new manufacturer, but does their behaviour put off some potential new companies from entering to partner with them.  Undoubtedly we all want to see more competition at the front of the grid though.

Offline J.Clark

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2016, 01:54:32 PM »
Horner says the rules are stable and expects Mercedes to continue their domination. It seems to me that if the rules are stable, it should provide a fantastic opportunity for the other teams to close the gap on Mercedes.  Of course, what do I know?

He has the man who is arguably the most successful designer in F1 history in his team.

He sounds pathetic!
Life is short - live each day to the fullest.

Online Jericoke

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2016, 03:03:54 PM »
Horner says the rules are stable and expects Mercedes to continue their domination. It seems to me that if the rules are stable, it should provide a fantastic opportunity for the other teams to close the gap on Mercedes.  Of course, what do I know?

He has the man who is arguably the most successful designer in F1 history in his team.

He sounds pathetic!

It's true that when rules remain stable, one team tends to dominate. 

We're in a bit of a unique period though with the engine freeze, where suppliers are required to supply inferior equipment if they happen to have made a mistake.

I agree with Horner that the rules need to be fixed:  starting with the engine rules.

However, given their behaviour, I'm inclined to keep the rules the same just to spite RBR.   |-(

Offline John S

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2016, 10:34:30 PM »

We're in a bit of a unique period though with the engine freeze, where suppliers are required to supply inferior equipment if they happen to have made a mistake.


I'd tend to disagree about the extent of the engine freeze though Jeri. Year to year the power unit builders can change quite a lot, they have a good number of tokens after all. However they seem to have all tried to develop their original concepts rather than rebuild in the Image of the most successful, except Ferrari who accepted Merc had taken a better direction with turbo proportions amongst other things and have followed suit.

Renault especially seems to have been unable to accept that others know better about the new Gen PUs, and as a result have been unwilling to make bold changes to both the architecture and implementation of both ICE and ERS. 

It remains to be seen if Honda's pride will allow it to make the fundamental changes needed to bring it's PU anywhere near Merc's power output and reliability. 

One of the biggest strengths of successful F1 teams has been an ability to learn quickly from mistakes, they seem to have lost this ability in the last couple of years. Is this a consequence of too much corporate interference from the engine builders? - if so the tails wagging the dog and unfortunately Horner's battle cry is somewhat valid.

He's still going about it the wrong way to get substantive change though IMHO. I'd prefer Red Bull to uncompromisingly overwork the Renault units in races to try to match Merc and Ferrari pace and cause constant failures - whilst saying tongue in cheek "we're giving it our best shot but not quite getting there". Lets see Renault explain away DNFs at every single race. Why dis em when you can embarrass em.

     
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Irisado

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2016, 04:10:43 PM »
The thing that really bothers me about Horner's complaints is that Red Bull is a wealthy team with significant resources.  There are teams who have a lot more reason to complain about the state of Formula 1, yet it's consistently Red Bull who are making waves.  Where were all the complaints about the rules when they dominated from 2010-2013?

I happen to agree that Formula 1 is in a poor state right now, but all this complaining in public about the engine rules isn't helping.  If Horner really wants to facilitate change, he needs to get more deeply involved in negotiations behind the scenes and stop wasting time constantly harping on about it to the media.
Soņando con una playa donde brilla el sol, un arco iris ilumina el cielo, y el mar espejea iridescentemente

Offline Warmwater

Re: Horner calling for rule changes
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2016, 09:48:46 PM »
Formula 1 is awash with rules...
Rules are always Negative....
I don't like rules.
"There is nothing wrong with the car, except that it is on fire"    Murray Walker

 


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