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Author Topic: only one man's opinion?  (Read 4513 times)

Offline cosworth151

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2009, 04:12:44 PM »
Just in case a few of the young folk haven't seen one, here's a pix of a Mercedes W-196 Streamliner I put in the Image Gallery section a while back. I took the picture in the Indianapolis Motor Speedway Museum. Most people wouldn't even recognise it as an F1 car.

Cos (Another old greybeard)
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Chameleon

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2009, 07:03:14 PM »
...Max changes the rules as often as he changes his underwear...

Please don't mention Max's underwear.  It brings back terrible memories of a video I once saw...

 :stop:
Never mind me - read http://f1insight.madtv.me.uk/ :D

Offline Ian

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2009, 08:58:24 PM »
That car just oozes sex appeal don't it Cos, those curves are superb.  :P
An aircraft landing is just a controlled crash.

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2009, 02:39:18 AM »
10-07-1950  :D

Lonny
Lonny

Offline John S

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2009, 12:16:51 PM »

I think the major teams have been shaken to the core this year by Brawn's performance, without this happening they may well have all signed up dutifully to budget caps. 

By agreeing to capping they feel their ability to respond to one or more new underdogs fielding inovative and fast cars will be compromised or destroyed completly. There is plenty of evidence this year that the established top teams are still having to find big money to keep developing their turkeys.

Asking the big teams to change their profligate spending habits overnight was always a non runner, the credit crunch has trimmed, or is about to trim, budgets enough I would think for the next couple of seasons. F1 has always been about freedom to innovate, in big teams this will mostly be driven by the money available whilst smaller teams rely on ingenuity and passion.

With capped budgets all the teams will have to cut their workforces, what is to happen to all the staff they will have to let go.  >:(  Oh and will the redundancy payments be included in the cap?

The idea of a two tier entry is plain nuts. What is the point of having unlimited funds but nothing you can spend it on to improve your car, or perhaps worse,  plenty of freedom to add & change things on the car but no money to carry it out.

All of this change in F1 is much too fast! We have not yet seen the full impact on the sport of the 2009 regs so how the hell are they going to make the even bigger changes required by budget capping.  :DntKnw:
Racing is life - everything else is just waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Scott

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2009, 12:34:38 PM »
Good points John.  I think it is always best to let the market forces dictate the budgets.  If sponsors are paying attention, they will see which teams will be the most effective billboards for them and go in that direction.  If someone like Brawn or Williams can come up with a front runner while Ferrari and Mclaren beg for a few points here and there, then the budgets for those teams will reflect that next year.

The fact that Ferrari is still flaunting tobacco money, which doesn't care about winning, just about publicity (it's not as if they will start an ad campaign with Massa and Kimi with cigarettes hanging out of their mouths) is still troubling.  Ferrari still accepts it because it is almost unlimited.  If they had to find non-tobacco sponsors, they might find themselves struggling with a much smaller budget and a need to be more innovative and reactive. 
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline monty

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2009, 03:36:47 PM »
It is very rare for me to agree with Eddie Jordan but his point on BBC F1 about the money spent on corporate entertainment suites was spot-on.
I assume that when Ferrari say they have spent £XXX million per year it includes corporate entertainment, PR, admin and legal fees (of course).
If a financial cap is to be imposed I have no idea how the FIA will track how much money the teams spend on the car (i.e. development, wind tunnel, factory staff, etc. etc.).
However, I think it is important that the 'capped' amount is reasonable and ensures that sufficient money is spent on the car.

If some of the teams decide to find and spend fortunes on corporate entertainment etc. then let them.

Offline Jericoke

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2009, 03:49:24 PM »
If a financial cap is to be imposed I have no idea how the FIA will track how much money the teams spend on the car (i.e. development, wind tunnel, factory staff, etc. etc.).

It's not really all that difficult for all team employees to become FIA employees, with the teams 'leasing' their services.  FIA handles the paycheques from money supplied by the teams.  FIA can also handle any facility contracts that would be covered as well.  Obviously there will be attempts to get around this system, but that should be as easy to enforce as 'tax cheats'.  Working for an F1 team will mean a little less financial privacy.

However, I think it is important that the 'capped' amount is reasonable and ensures that sufficient money is spent on the car. 

I'm surprised FOTA hasn't already come up with a decent number.

If some of the teams decide to find and spend fortunes on corporate entertainment etc. then let them.

That's what Formula One is REALLY about, isn't it?

Offline monty

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2009, 09:22:45 AM »
Quote
It's not really all that difficult for all team employees to become FIA employees, with the teams 'leasing' their services.  FIA handles the paycheques from money supplied by the teams.  FIA can also handle any facility contracts that would be covered as well.  Obviously there will be attempts to get around this system, but that should be as easy to enforce as 'tax cheats'.  Working for an F1 team will mean a little less financial privacy.

That's a very concise idea. Are you in Finance Jeri?
I'm an engineer first and a business manager second. My background tells me that too much input from a centralised management (FIA) will limit radical ideas and entrepreneurial spirit. In short, I think the capping idea could kill F1. However, if the FIA continue with the idea I vote they put Jericoke in charge!

Offline Jericoke

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2009, 03:32:09 PM »
Quote
It's not really all that difficult for all team employees to become FIA employees, with the teams 'leasing' their services.  FIA handles the paycheques from money supplied by the teams.  FIA can also handle any facility contracts that would be covered as well.  Obviously there will be attempts to get around this system, but that should be as easy to enforce as 'tax cheats'.  Working for an F1 team will mean a little less financial privacy.

That's a very concise idea. Are you in Finance Jeri?
I'm an engineer first and a business manager second. My background tells me that too much input from a centralised management (FIA) will limit radical ideas and entrepreneurial spirit. In short, I think the capping idea could kill F1. However, if the FIA continue with the idea I vote they put Jericoke in charge!

I manage a small business, and we outsource our payroll.

I'm not suggesting FIA manage anything, just act as a trust to ensure employees are paid under the cap.  It would actually save a little money, having one payroll administration in place of a dozen.

I doubt many F1 teams make their creative leaps in the back office, but with more people like Branson and Malia coming in, that business expertise might be able to cut costs off the track.

Offline monty

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2009, 03:50:51 PM »
I didn't put it very well but basically I agree with you.
The problem is that the FIA (on past performance) would almost certainly get over-involved, they would charge too much for their services, they would not be consistent, they would leak the Maclaren pay structure to Ferrari (OK I made that one up!). In general I just do not think it is workable.
The competition that makes F1 what it is, goes from the track, right down to grass roots. It has always had big spenders and little entrepreneurs and yet it has always survived. I just wish Max would keep his nose out of a business he still doesn't understand (which is why he has never managed a successful F1 team).

Offline Scott

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2009, 04:18:04 AM »
Absolutely.  I would NEVER give the FIA the power to browse the books.  If there was to be a budget cap, I would say that an independent accounting firm should be awarded the contract by FOTA, not the FIA.  That would be the most objective way to do it.

While they're at it, they could have a peek at the FOM's books. 
The Honey Badger doesn't give a...

Offline Jericoke

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2009, 02:01:11 PM »
Absolutely.  I would NEVER give the FIA the power to browse the books.  If there was to be a budget cap, I would say that an independent accounting firm should be awarded the contract by FOTA, not the FIA.  That would be the most objective way to do it.

While they're at it, they could have a peek at the FOM's books. 

That makes sense.  More power to FOTA is what the sport needs.

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2009, 03:27:14 PM »
The FIA was banned from interfering in the financial side - at all - in 2001 by the EU due to concerns about monopolistic behaviour. The whole budget-cap issue is moot because the FIA can't, technically speaking, be involved in forcing financial change.
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: only one man's opinion?
« Reply #29 on: May 17, 2009, 07:21:48 PM »
Tell that to Max, as if he would listen.

Lonny
Lonny

 


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