The Delta Wing

[John S]

in looking at these odd cars, we have to look back and wonder what it was like to see a REAR engined car, or the first cars with aero and ground effects for the first time.

The 'modern' open wheel car design with rear engine and aerodynamic designs has only been used for 40 out of 100 years.

(Although is that Delta an 'open wheel'!?)

The difference as far as I'm concerned is the previous big milestones, eg rear engines, ground effect etc., were all brought to the party by individual teams and they stood of fell on their own merits. This more natural evolution, even when it is major, takes the whole sport along where as Indy cars are seeking a revolutionary change which is trying to impose change.

The fear for Indy and any fans must be that radical change may kill the patient whilst seeking a perhaps unecessary cure.

[cosworth151]

I think we also need to keep in mind that most cars, be they racing or street, tend to get "toned down" considerably between concept and production. One purpose of releasing these radical designs might be to stir up more awareness of the IRL. That certainly has happened here.

[lkjohnson1950]

Oh Jeri, you are too young. When I was a boy I got a book from the library that had a picture of the Miller-Gulf cars of the '30s. http://indymotorspeedway.com/500d-40.htm. That was the first MID engined car I ever saw. The first one I saw in person was the 1963 Lotus-Ford Indy car. Compared to the Roadsters of the day, it looked small and fragile. Ford was impressed enough to sink money into the 4 cam small block , which won in a Lotus 38 chassis in 1965. It looked modern and sophisticated, and very fast. The first ground effects car was the Lotus 78, though truly it was a wing car. The tops of the sidepods were inverted wing profiles. The first one I saw was the Lotus 79 at the US GP. It looked just about perfect to me. Still does.

Lonny

[cosworth151]

When I was young, I remember seeing pictures of the Porsche-designed Auto Union GP cars of the 30's. Still, it took John Cooper and Colin Chapman to make the modern mid-engine design a reality.

One of the biggest things missing from Indy in the past couple of decades has been innovation. Hopefully, these new designs will bring back the excitement that cars like the original Cooper-Climax, Lotus-Ford & STP Turbines did back in the 60's.

Prior to the Miller-Gulf, Harry miller fielded a string of front wheel drive Indy cars. Here's a site you might enjoy, Lonny.

http://www.milleroffy.com/

[Jericoke]

When I was young, I remember seeing pictures of the Porsche-designed Auto Union GP cars of the 30's. Still, it took John Cooper and Colin Chapman to make the modern mid-engine design a reality.

One of the biggest things missing from Indy in the past couple of decades has been innovation. Hopefully, these new designs will bring back the excitement that cars like the original Cooper-Climax, Lotus-Ford & STP Turbines did back in the 60's.

Prior to the Miller-Gulf, Harry miller fielded a string of front wheel drive Indy cars. Here's a site you might enjoy, Lonny.

http://www.milleroffy.com/

The problem is that the current formulae are so heavily regulated that there isn't really room for innovation.  Even the double diffuser was hardly an innovation, but a mere loophole that allowed older designs.  IRL is basically a spec series, which makes it much more difficult to innovate.

I wish they would just take the wraps off of F1.  I know they have trouble bringing in teams and advertisers, but would Toyota or Honda be more interested if they could enter something truly unique?  Would Ford be interested in creating the best engine? 

[lkjohnson1950]

Nice site Cossie! I have been to the Indy museum where they have several Millers on display. The workmanship on those cars is amazing. If you ever have a chance to visit the Speedway Museum, be sure to go upstairs to the photo archives.

Lonny

[cosworth151]

I agree, Jeri. Take engines, for example. If Ferrari wants a V-12, Cosworth a V-8 and Porsche a boxer 6, let them. Just specify a displacement and let fly! The same with chassis, suspension aero, etc.

I've been there, Lonny, and I loved it! In fact, it would be hard to find a square foot of The Speedway I haven't managed to get into!