First of many 2011 innovations? - Renault front exit exhaust

[John S]

The boys at Enstone have pulled one from the hat but will it be a Hare or a Bunny?
Here's an explanation of just what Renault are trying with their novel front exit exhaust.

http://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/02/01/renault-r31-front-exit-exhausts-fee-explained/

[Canada Darrell™]

That's pretty cool. Hope it works!

[David]

You know I was straight onto the Ferrari web site to see if they had done something similar, but alas their exhaust exit remains a mystery. Renault haven't done this for nothing, could be the double diffuser, F-duct thingy for 2011.

Could you imagine the increase in noise for the driver with the exhausts right there beside him.

[Scott]

   Don't kid yerself...it's a mock-up for sure.  Exhaust pointing forwards and going past the rads and fuel cell and coming out against the airflow...what is this, April 1st?  

[PG_Gabriel]

Who Knows? Its a good idea, but at the same time not...

In theory its brilliant! but there are way to many thing to get around

I wouldn't be surprised if they stick with it (at least until teams spend millions trying to copy it!)

[Scott]

And what temperature does carbon fibre melt at?  What about the front tire changers having their hands fried as they change tires?  The blogger himself mentions many of the 'hurdles' Renault will have to get over such as engine mapping, dealing with an exhaust that favours low revs, not 18k. 

I'm no engineer, but to me this smells like a pre-season hoax to get the photog's all interested in the wrong end of the car.  Wasn't it Ferrari or RBR that put fake exhausts on their new car a couple of years back for the same reason?

[Andy B]

 Don't kid yerself...it's a mock-up for sure.  Exhaust pointing forwards and going past the rads and fuel cell and coming out against the airflow...what is this, April 1st?  

I agree with wot e sed!!

[John S]

Others seem to be taking it seriously, here's a quote from a story on the Autosport website today about the subject. Might not be as crazy as it first appears.

"Although Renault is the only team that is running the exhaust configuration in Valencia, a number of other outfits are believed to already have the concept under development and are set to introduce it before the start of the season."

[Williamsfan]

Whilst I kind of agree with Scott and am concerned about overheating sensitive areas of the car, to me Renault are making too much of this for it to be a ruse.  They've talked about it actively and I wonder if a device like this would make testing worthless due to the effects it would have on their aero performance if it had no actual purpose than to be a distraction?

[Scott]

I'll wait and see.  I wonder if the exhaust isn't actually exiting the car in front of the diffuser.  Mclaren and Merc seem to have jumped on board, but to me it makes little sense.  Apparently Mclaren have only admitted they have a 'radical' exhaust system, not that it resembles anything Renault have done.  

Not to mention that exhaust pipes are heavy - is it worth it to add a bunch of kg (although it's not a bad place to add it, I guess, low and central)?  It just doesn't make sense from a cooling perspective.  I can't imagine the amount or type of insulation that they would have to put in to protect the body (and driver for that matter - methinks the cockpit would become a much warmer place), and other components from overheating and failing.  The exhaust temperatures are up to 800c!!  The pipes glow red hot.  Normally an F1 engineer wants the exhaust to leave the car as quickly as possible so it doesn't cause damage.  We've all seen exhaust leaks and how much destruction they can cause.

I found this quote on F1Technical.net:

"At peak revs, a formula engine will blast out exhaust gases 95,000 times a minute. To scavenge maximum power the exhaust pipes need to be as short as possible. Unfortunately , to help generate maximum torque and responsiveness at lower revs, longer splender pipes are called for. As F1 regulations don’t permit variable-geometry exhausts, the answer lies in the best possible compromise.
The current preference for tailpipes that emerge upwards through the rear trim at either side of the car has made life easier for exhaust designers.

"F1 exhausts rarely completes more than 1200km since the need to save weight means they have to be designed close to the limit. The thickness of the heat-resistant steel adopted from the aerospace industry varies but is never more than 1 millimeter. But when eventually kills these waste-gas works of art is not vibration or temperatures of 1000 degrees and more, but stress, The different radii of the various pipes ultimately produce fatigue which leads to cracks where the stress is greatest. Not surprisingly, at this high level of performance even the best exhaust are soon exhausted"

I can't see teams sacrificing power and weight distribution for downforce and questionable reliability.

In conclusion, maybe it is a legit system (but I doubt it), however I expect there to be problems in testing or early races, and it will be abandoned.

[cosworth151]

In another thread, I mentioned that I couldn't see the exhausts on the new Ferrari F150. I wonder if they are up to something tricky, too.

[PG_Gabriel]

I'll wait and see.  I wonder if the exhaust isn't actually exiting the car in front of the diffuser.  Mclaren and Merc seem to have jumped on board, but to me it makes little sense.  Apparently Mclaren have only admitted they have a 'radical' exhaust system, not that it resembles anything Renault have done. 

Could they possibly have the exhaust go to the rear wing and work like an F-Duct, or would there not be enough flow?

[David]

Maybe the heat from the exhaust gases would be so quickly dissipated by the massive airflow round the car that it isn't a major problem. 
After all they had blown diffusers last year, and the exhausts that exit out of the engine cover would blow hot gases over the rear wing. They did have any problems with either melting or over heating.
If it is a Renault hoax they fair play to them, we're all taking about them and looking at their car, the sponsor's will love that.

[John S]

the Renault R31 was one of only 3 teams to put in over a hundred laps today in Valencia, they posted the 3rd best time for this season cars, so overheating doesn't appear to be a problem for the new exhaust system on their car. I don't think it's a hoax, even the Renault engine people are saying you can hear the difference in the engine note due to the work they've put in to make the front entry exhaust work.






 

[lkjohnson1950]

Apparently, not only does the exhaust flow add to the volume of air going to the diffuser, the temperature difference can be used as a boundry or barrier to direct the high pressure air at the front of the floor to the diffuser as well. Mercedes doesn't think the temperatures would be a problem.

Lonny