Red Bull look to Ferrari for 2016 engine supply

[John S]

Red Bull weighing up shock switch to Maranello power next year.

Sport Bild claims that, fed up with works partner Renault’s poor reliability and performance in the new ‘power unit’ era, Red Bull has been in talks with its arch-rival Ferrari.

While a switch to Ferrari would be sensational, Red Bull was powered by Maranello-built engines before, in 2006. A year later, junior team Toro Rosso also began to use customer Ferrari power.

In its latest edition, Sport Bild claims Ferrari is indeed willing to facilitate Red Bull's return to Italian power for 2016.

However, the Red Bull-owned team would reportedly have clear ‘B’ status, including a specification of engine 20-30 horse power behind the works Ferrari team.

But Red Bull’s Helmut Marko said: “Even a B-version of the Ferrari would be better than the A-version of the Renault.”

I guess the price of escape from the Renault contract for 16 could be to trade in STR as a new Renault team, obviously only if Renault feel there is enough strength in depth with an Italian based F1 team - which is a big stumbling block I would suggest. 

Will Herr Marko's RBR be jumping out of the frying pan into a bucket of luke warm water though if Renault manage to turn their engine around for the 16 or 17 seasons.   

[Jericoke]

I would think twice about partnering with someone who will so freely bad mouth a struggling partner.  I can already hear the complaints that the B Ferrari engine is 'more like 80 hp down, not 20'.

We all foresaw a disaster with limited engine development rules accompanying a new formula.  I know that this rule was put in place to keep Mercedes in the sport, but with the German GP gone,F1 interest continuing to wane in Germany, and the omnipresent 'board of Daimler' threatening to pack up anyway I think that the days for German Appeasement (apologies for a heavy handed metaphor) are over.

I think the RBR would happily work with Renault to built a new power unit.  I think that Honda and McLaren would lay out what it takes to run some in season tests.

[Scott]

Exactly.  Keep Merc or ditch the engine dev rules.  My vote would be to ditch Merc.

[Alianora La Canta]

The trouble is that ditching Merc means probably losing two teams (assuming a third team got the spare Renault supply the other one managed to get the Honda customer supply). There are no longer enough supplies to go round for F1 to get away with not appeasing every single manufacturer still in it.

Though the Ferrari rumour makes me wonder - is Haas as solid as it looks? (That's the unaccounted-for Ferrari supply, and if it made the grid Ferrari would have 4 teams - Ferrari, Sauber, Manor and Haas - doubt it would be allowed to make it five with Red Bull).

[Jericoke]

The trouble is that ditching Merc means probably losing two teams (assuming a third team got the spare Renault supply the other one managed to get the Honda customer supply). There are no longer enough supplies to go round for F1 to get away with not appeasing every single manufacturer still in it.

Though the Ferrari rumour makes me wonder - is Haas as solid as it looks? (That's the unaccounted-for Ferrari supply, and if it made the grid Ferrari would have 4 teams - Ferrari, Sauber, Manor and Haas - doubt it would be allowed to make it five with Red Bull).

How long are Renault and Honda going to stick with losing programmes that have no possibility of improving?  If I have to choose between 1 supplier or 2.... I'll take 2.

It would be troublesome to lose a team like Mercedes who can trace their lineage back to the 70s, but if they can follow Honda's model of supporting management buy out, LaudaF1 or Wolfe Racing would be worthy additions to the grid.

[Scott]

Honestly, the engine rules are going to destroy F1.  That will be a legacy also shared by Merc.  I don't even think there is time to turn it around.

[Steve A.]

Honestly, the engine rules are going to destroy F1.  That will be a legacy also shared by Merc.  I don't even think there is time to turn it around.

Listening to some comments on Facebook and such it looks like the destruction has begun. There are a lot of negative comments and disillusioned people right now. And looking at JB's 25 place penalty it's getting ridiculous, tomorrow he will have to start from the Nubergring.

[John S]

And looking at JB's 25 place penalty it's getting ridiculous, tomorrow he will have to start from the Nubergring.

 

No that's where Nando starts from, Jens has to go back all the way to Woking.   

[Steve A.]

No that's where Nando starts from, Jens has to go back all the way to Woking.   
[/quote]
Woking? Or would he be better walking

[lkjohnson1950]

I rather like the new power units, hybrids are all the rage. They could sound a bit more racy. But, this limit on development and limited number of engines is ridiculous. Not only in racing, but in the auto industry, development is the lifeblood. And I doubt Honda or Renault are saving money blowing up engines every week. Enough is enough.

[Jericoke]

I rather like the new power units, hybrids are all the rage. They could sound a bit more racy. But, this limit on development and limited number of engines is ridiculous. Not only in racing, but in the auto industry, development is the lifeblood. And I doubt Honda or Renault are saving money blowing up engines every week. Enough is enough.

I know that the current formula isn't universally loved, but here we're just discussing the development freeze

Mercedes won't let the rules slide.  They got it right following the rules, so they say it's not fair they should be forced to spend more money.  They don't seem aware that by freezing out their competitors they're freezing out fans.

[Scott]

Save the sport, make engine development wide open starting today.  To heck with Mercedes. 

[Steve A.]

I agree Scott, something must be done and quickly

[Scott]

We said in chat that it was probably better that Alonso crashed so he wouldn't have to have to finish last (not that he would have finished, but anyway...).  CEO of Honda tagging along behind Bernie like a little puppy dog, how embarrassing was THAT?  He should have had Bernie by the ear.

[Irisado]

Though the Ferrari rumour makes me wonder - is Haas as solid as it looks? (That's the unaccounted-for Ferrari supply, and if it made the grid Ferrari would have 4 teams - Ferrari, Sauber, Manor and Haas - doubt it would be allowed to make it five with Red Bull).

Haas apparently is going to have various bases in different countries for building the cars.  That sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.  I'm not sure how much confidence I'd have in that project if I were on Ferrari's management team.

As for Red Bull turning to Ferrari, it wouldn't be unprecedented, and given the relationship with Toro Rosso in previous seasons, I wouldn't rule it out.

The engine rules are a mess, however, the main issue here is the cost and the penalty system rather than the engines themselves.