Are Red bull trying to hold F1 to ransom with quit threat?

[John S]

If so Mateschitz clearly doesn't know Bernie at all. 

Red bull are now saying they will pull the plug on both their F1 teams if they don't get the same spec engines, including software and fuel tech as Scuderia Ferrari. 

There's no way head honcho Marchionne will allow Maranello to give everything to the MK "Garagistas", especially now they've found winning ways again.   

Presumably Mateschitz is expecting Bernie to convince Ferrari to give them what they want - some chance. 

It seems to me, and probably anyone who has had dealings with him, the more you turn the screw on Mr E the more he'll dig in.    Looks likely there may only be 18 cars on the grid next year. 

[Dare]

RedBull have to be number one in BS.When they had the
winning car for years do you think for one second they'd
share their engine with any other team?If they leave good riddance

[Jericoke]

RedBull have to be number one in BS.When they had the
winning car for years do you think for one second they'd
share their engine with any other team?If they leave good riddance

Wow, when Newey is pushing the aero rules to the limits, they're heroes of innovation.  When they call out a supplier for intentionally providing an engine that  doesn't deliver on its promises, it's good riddance?

I think it's ridiculous that Ferrari can get away with sabotaging their competitors.  That's far more damaging to the sport than RBR complaining that Renault doesn't know what they're doing.  At least Renault is trying, and the blame falls on Byzantine rules.

[lkjohnson1950]

I think it's only a matter of time. Red Bull has never stuck with any sport I know of for a very long time. I think Mateschitz gets bored easily.

[Scott]

Two things for me.

-The stupid stupid stupid stupid engine rules have caused the RBR - Renault split.  Without them, Renault would have been able to sort out their engine very quickly.  What is really too bad is that Horner and company have gone around badmouthing Renault and destroying any chance they had at getting engines next year from them. 

-The new stupid stupid stupid stupid engine rules that would allow Ferrari to provide anything less than full spec current engines to customers.

Both of these things Bernie and FIA had huge hands in creating (by monopolizing the strategy group votes).  As much as I know Bernie will dig in when threatened, he is the evil dick who did it.

[Jericoke]

Two things for me.

-The stupid stupid stupid stupid engine rules have caused the RBR - Renault split.  Without them, Renault would have been able to sort out their engine very quickly.  What is really too bad is that Horner and company have gone around badmouthing Renault and destroying any chance they had at getting engines next year from them. 

-The new stupid stupid stupid stupid engine rules that would allow Ferrari to provide anything less than full spec current engines to customers.

Both of these things Bernie and FIA had huge hands in creating (by monopolizing the strategy group votes).  As much as I know Bernie will dig in when threatened, he is the evil dick who did it.

-Agreed
-Agreed
-Agreed

I'm surprised that Bernie would blow off Mateschitz though.  I thought his strategy was to bring in all the 'new money' billionaires like Mateschitz, Mallya and Branson.

He's already chased out most of the car companies.

He's never been able to attract tech companies (I'd like to see Apple vs Google on the race track)

He's priced out independents.  No one is crazy enough to follow in the shoes of Williams, Dennis or Sauber.

Where is he going to turn now?  Will he try to nationalize teams?  There have been efforts in the past.  He might convince a few countries who haven't ponied up for a race to at least buy into a team or back a driver.

[Steve A.]

I'm sure at one point he was trying to get premier league football teams to get involved.

[Irisado]

The engine rules and the attitude of Red Bull's senior management are both to blame here.  Renault may have got it wrong with the engines, but they could have made significant improvements if the rules allowed them to, and the same is true of Honda.  These rules really do need to be sorted out.

I wouldn't be surprised if Red Bull did walk away, but I would hope that buyers would be found for both the main team and Toro Rosso first.  If the latter is to go, then I'd love Minardi to come back and to take their place .

[John S]

I wouldn't be surprised if Red Bull did walk away, but I would hope that buyers would be found for both the main team and Toro Rosso first.  If the latter is to go, then I'd love Minardi to come back and to take their place .

My suggestions on that are:-

(A)  MK based Red Bull becoming Arden F1, backed by some form of Red bull sponsorship for a couple of seasons. Christian Horner apparently applied for the F1 slot earlier this year but was turned down for whatever reason.

(B) STR will be taken on by ART GP and choose to become a technical partner with McLaren Honda, similar to the Haas deal with Ferrari. Again ART has aspirations to join F1, they were expected to bid on the F1 place that the FIA put up for grabs but for whatever reason seem to have stopped short.

 

[Irisado]

The way things are going with Red Bull's engine negotiations, you could be spot on there John.  I notice that Helmut Marko was his usual belligerent self about it all, arguing that Red Bull must have a competitive engine or they will quit.

Why are Red Bull entitled to a competitive engine?  It's this self-entitlement that they have which bothers me.  I'd be more understanding if they just kept blaming the rules and the FIA, and saying that it's unfair on all the engine builders is is harming competitiveness in Formula 1, that would be a strong argument, but all this self-entitlement stuff is becoming very irritating in my opinion.

[Alianora La Canta]

Ferrari is being really clever here:

- It is offering an engine. So Red Bull can't claim nobody did so.

- It's offering a really bad engine. So everyone can see Ferrari doesn't want to supply Red Bull.

- It's offering such a spectacularly bad engine it would actually need FIA approval to provide something so terrible. It got it for Manor because Manor patently couldn't afford a new engine. That's not the case for Red Bull, so if Red Bull were really wanting to stay, they'd only need to notify the FIA and, voila, they'd get new engines for the price of year-old engines...

...but Ferrari sensed that Red Bull was simply trying to make itself look like the victim rather than seriously wanting to stay in F1. So Ferrari's actions have shown Red Bull for what it is, and prevented it from getting any more psuedopolitical power, at least until it mends its ways. (It won't).

[Jericoke]

Ferrari is being really clever here:

- It is offering an engine. So Red Bull can't claim nobody did so.

- It's offering a really bad engine. So everyone can see Ferrari doesn't want to supply Red Bull.

- It's offering such a spectacularly bad engine it would actually need FIA approval to provide something so terrible. It got it for Manor because Manor patently couldn't afford a new engine. That's not the case for Red Bull, so if Red Bull were really wanting to stay, they'd only need to notify the FIA and, voila, they'd get new engines for the price of year-old engines...

...but Ferrari sensed that Red Bull was simply trying to make itself look like the victim rather than seriously wanting to stay in F1. So Ferrari's actions have shown Red Bull for what it is, and prevented it from getting any more psuedopolitical power, at least until it mends its ways. (It won't).

It would be ridiculous to expect the teams to get along all the time.

On the other hand, how many other businesses let their partners actively and publicly sabotage each other?  It's easy to blame Bernie for any woes that the teams have, but when they actively work to crush the competition off track, it's no wonder no one cares for the product on track.