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Author Topic: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes  (Read 4410 times)

Offline Jericoke

2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« on: March 22, 2023, 07:36:52 PM »
This is a tough one to write.  Obviously there were 'winners' and 'losers', it's a race, that's the idea.  But I feel like 'Heroes' and 'Zeroes' indicate someone who went above and did well, or someone who was disappointing.

Max finished second place, had the fastest lap, driver of the day, but even in his team they feel like a failed weekend.  Is that 'Hero or Zero'?  Perez won the race, but it was basically gifted to him by Max's parts failure.  It doesn't feel like a heroic win, just another day at the office.  Red Bull is providing a dominant car, but nothing they did over the weekend really made a difference.  The work was done over the winter.  Getting 'hero' over and over again for work done months ago seems reductive.

Ferrari did okay.  Maybe they should have been ahead of Mercedes and Aston Martin, but they raced, they finished, no real strategic nor driving errors, hardly anything to speak about there.

Alonso has continued to show that he's still got some fight in him AND that Aston Martin is as good as he said.  Being the best of the rest is usually pretty heroic, but like I said earlier, by race #2 it's clear that Alonso finishing 3rd is expected.  Good work by him and his team.

Down the grid we can quibble.  The midfield is going to be interesting this year, McLaren had some problems with their cars, but that's just bad luck.  Some cars/drivers did better early, some did better later, just the nature of the cars and the work done over the winter.  I do like that there doesn't seem to be a team stuck at the back right now.  Watching Williams and Haas show up for participation trophies was sad, so I suppose they deserve some 'hero' kudos for closing that up.

The only obvious zero is the FIA, who still hasn't figured out how to police on track action.  I get it, the sport is high speed, high adrenaline, and millimeter precise and in the moment, it's hard to get the call right 100% of the time.  But if you've got 30 minutes to look at replays, look up previous examples, there's no excuse for getting a call wrong.

Modern television sports coverage has a team of 'trivia nerds' feeding information to the team calling the race.  Why not hire a couple of F1 nerds to help with precedent?  Maybe F1 race directors don't remember what happened the last time a jack touched a car during a time penalty, but it's not hard to find people who do.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2023, 07:40:08 PM by Jericoke »



Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2023, 09:30:19 PM »
Heroes: Perez. I don't know what problems Max
            was having, but when he closed to
            about 5/6 seconds, Perez matched him
            fast lap for fast lap. When the pits told
            Perez to slow, he told them to buzz off,
            not explicitly, but by continuing to push.
           
            Russell: Continues to get more out of
            the Merc than Lewis.

            Aston Martin: Aston made a huge jump
            over the winter. In Alonso's hands it is
            very nearly up to the Bulls, and Stroll
            shows in a good car he is a competent
            F1 driver.

Zeroes: Alfa. They have become the new
            Haas/Williams at the back. Audi may be
            regretting their buy.

            McLaren. Maybe it wasn't all Daniel's
            fault.

            Ferrari. They were confident replacing
            Binotto would transform the team. It
            did, but certainly not the way they
            hoped. Had me fooled.
Lonny

Online cosworth151

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2023, 02:59:10 PM »
In addition to the above:

Hero:

K-Mag - He's showing that he can keep up with Nico and even outdo him. He also got Haas's first point of the season.

Zero:

The stewards, FIA et al - I'm really at a loss for words. What a total mess. Seriously, when I heard about the post race ding on Alonso, I thought it might be because he served his 5 sec penalty during a Safety Car. I didn't think that was allowed.

Special Psychic Hotline Award:

Anybody who, before Bahrain, predicted that Aston Martin would be 2nd in the Constructors at this point, and that Williams  would be ahead of McLaren.  :confused:
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline rmassart

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2023, 04:17:14 PM »
Anybody who, before Bahrain, predicted that Aston Martin would be 2nd in the Constructors at this point, and that Williams would be ahead of McLaren.  :confused:

Looking at it like this, the season could get really exciting, if we ignore the RedBulls.  Maybe they can arrange two competitions:  "Formula 1" (for the normal teams) and "Formula 1*" (for RedBull). 

I am thinking along the lines of the UK A-Levels where you used to get grades A to E, but too many people were getting As that they added an A* :-)  Interestingly, the course I followed (in Aeronautical Engineering no less) needed 3 B's in my day, now it needs 3 A's...

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2023, 07:49:54 PM »
Heroes:

Fernando Alonso: He had the measure of everyone not in a Red Bull. Including, impressively, a better grasp of the regulations than the FIA.

Logan Sergeant: Unheralded good work in qualifying and solid effort during the race.

The fans for putting up with all this.

Zeroes:

The FIA: Forget not knowing their own regulations and trying to apply badly-written regulations that don't exist because they were changed for worse ones - that's standard operating procedure these days. But losing track of a car that was still partially on the road despite it having many cameras trained on it and despite a promise given 8 races ago to track cars properly (as it was required to do in a legal settlement back in 2017) to the point where a Safety Car was called... ...that is above and beyond. The part where Max Verstappen benefitted from the move despite not really needing it was the icing on a mouldy cake. Especially when the track still doesn't meet Grade 4 requirements, let alone Grade 1, due to a lack of service road (which itself contributed to problems during the weekend)...

Keep note, there will be a test.

Alex Albon: Of all the circuits to try carrying on after brake failure, this is one of the worst. Why risk everyone else's safety like that?

McLaren: glorified test session. And yes, Oscar, being in collisions does result in damage. (I don't think he was to blame, so I've only dinged him for the comment, not the accident).
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline Dare

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2023, 01:43:53 AM »
Did the pit at RB try and give the win to Max when they
told Sergio to slow down while Max had no intention. Maybe
that's why Jos had a sour look on his face
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline lkjohnson1950

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2023, 04:50:35 AM »
The FIA's real problem is that they use the marshall's job as a bonus prize for the locals instead of getting full time professionals for the job.
Lonny

Offline Willy

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2023, 06:35:44 PM »
Not going to add to the above well-stated remarks by all.

I will ask if taking a 5-second penalty is not allowed during a Safety Car episode, then wouldn't all the teams know about this?
It appears they do not, or at least Aston Martin does not.

Offline John S

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Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2023, 07:42:15 PM »

I will ask if taking a 5-second penalty is not allowed during a Safety Car episode, then wouldn't all the teams know about this?
It appears they do not, or at least Aston Martin does not.

As far as I know if the pits are open for all teams to stop then even under safety car penalties can be served. When pits are closed, e.g safety car must take train thru pits, or under red flag then penalties cannot be taken.

The rules don't differentiate between normal race condition Pit stops & Pit stops under safety car, or virtual safety car. A car with a penalty still loses the same amount of time in any scenario.

The big fuss was about touching the car before penalty time had elapsed, not whether taking penalty under S/C was incorrect.
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline Jericoke

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2023, 10:13:41 PM »
Did the pit at RB try and give the win to Max when they
told Sergio to slow down while Max had no intention. Maybe
that's why Jos had a sour look on his face

As much as Sergio wants to win the championship, I think he wants to p*ss off the Verstappens more.  Imagine how angry they'd get if Sergio handed a win to Max.

"Good race Max, sure lucky I slowed down for you"

By the way, F1 fans sure are fickle, in the past 'team orders' were seen as the bane of the sport, now suddenly Max is the 'bad guy' because he doesn't follow them? I'm all for cheering against Max, but we know who he is, he's always going to dive for that opening, he's always going to go for the fastest lap, he's always going to screw over his teammate.

Online cosworth151

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2023, 03:31:50 PM »
I just found this piece on time penalties. It says that they can be served during an S/C. I seem to recall that one of the commentators on the race said that they could not. That was at the time when Alonso was given the ding.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/what-f1-penalties-are-there-and-how-are-they-applied/6958238/
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Willy

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2023, 06:37:15 PM »
It was the commentator saying that, and me hearing it that caused the confusion for me. I did not realize that a crew member had touched the car before the 5 seconds had elapsed.

Offline John S

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Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #12 on: March 25, 2023, 08:08:19 PM »
I did not realize that a crew member had touched the car before the 5 seconds had elapsed.

Hey Willy, nor did the Stewards until Mercedes team made a big fuss about it after re-running video of Alonso's stop, and reporting it to Race director later in the race.  ::)
Racing is Life - everything else is just....waiting. (Steve McQueen)

Offline rmassart

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2023, 07:29:54 AM »
Hey Willy, nor did the Stewards until Mercedes team made a big fuss about it after re-running video of Alonso's stop, and reporting it to Race director later in the race.  ::)

Mercedes running scared they are going to be beaten by a customer team this year? :-)

Offline Monty

Re: 2023 Saudi Arabian GP Heroes and Zeroes
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2023, 09:20:14 PM »
Quote
nor did the Stewards until Mercedes team made a big fuss about it
I know this was ‘reported’ as a rumour in the paddock but the last I heard Mercedes categorically denied it and nobody else could corroborate it.
Is it true?

 


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