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Author Topic: Red Bull engine cover  (Read 2771 times)

Offline Steven Roy

Red Bull engine cover
« on: February 01, 2008, 07:16:12 PM »
Adrian Newey has come up with an innovative engine cover for the new Red Bull.  It has been run in testing today.



Offline Dare

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2008, 11:34:22 PM »
Adrian Newey has come up with an innovative engine cover for the new Red Bull.  It has been run in testing today.


Looks like a lotta bull to me
Mark Twain once opined, "it's easier to con someone than to convince them they've been conned."

Offline Chameleon

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2008, 12:39:49 AM »
This is the same idea as the upright horns that appeared briefly on the BMW last year - it's a distraction device.  Newey has obviously thought of something that makes a big difference to the car and the Cadillac tailfin is purely to draw our attention away from the really important area.  He's probably doing something really clever just behind the front wing...
Never mind me - read http://f1insight.madtv.me.uk/ :D

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2008, 12:58:32 PM »
I think distraction is part of it but more to do with the description of its function.  They talk about stability and I understand that but to me what they are trying to do is take airflow from the top of the car and prevent it from going over the top surface of the wing.  Airflow in contact with the bottom surface of the wing creates downforce whereas airflow in contact with the top surface will create lift.  So if you can feed airflow to the bottom surface and keep it away from the top you should get more net downforce.  That is why the diffuser is so efficient.  It doesn't have a top surface.

The basic shap of the top surface of the car (driver's helmet, engine cover etc) also causes lift so he may be trying to eliminate some of this lift.  It is even possible that the flow from this fin comes in contact with the rooster tail behind the car and there is some interaction there.

Maybe it is even designed to stall the wing on the straights.

All of the above is based on an extremely limited aerodynamic knowledge and may be complete cobblers.  Even though I have covered most possible outcomes I reserve the right to use this post at a later date to prove I was right if one of them turns out to be remotely close to being right.

Offline J.Clark

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2008, 08:59:43 PM »
Actually, I believe you have it bassackwards (as me mum would've said).
The rear wing's shape creates downforce by directing more air flow over the top than there is over the bottom, creating a low pressure on the underside of the wing "pulling" down.

You may be onto something though.

The elongated fin could clean up the air flow behind the cowling of the air intake and top of the engine cover, which does tend to swirrel as it comes together behind the air intake.  This would actually speed up the airflow across the rear wing an thus perhaps, allow for less wing.  The result would be less noticeable downforce at higher straightline speeds due to a flatter rear wing, while at the same time increasing the airflow and downforce in the medium and even high speed corners.
Life is short - live each day to the fullest.

Offline romephius

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2008, 02:27:08 AM »
Well actually while the volume of air moving over the top surface of the wing may generate some downforce through direct contact, it will actually generate some lift as well.  The design of an aeroplane wing and helicopter rotors makes the air on top of the surface move faster than the air on the bottom.  It is this faster moving air that has a lower pressure, thus through the slower, higher pressure air trying to equalise through the wing lift is generated. 

I have learned these wonderful facts through study I had to do before I could take control of a plane for a few hours.

Hopefully this helps guys.

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2008, 05:34:10 PM »
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64968

It obviously works because Webber finished fastest on the final day in Barcelona.

Pos  Driver          Team                     Time      Laps
 1.  Webber          Red Bull-Renault    (B)  1:22.385   65
 2.  Kovalainen      McLaren-Mercedes    (B)  1:22.422   67
 3.  Hamilton        McLaren-Mercedes    (B)  1:22.459   92
 4.  Kubica          BMW-Sauber          (B)  1:22.492   83
 5.  Alonso          Renault             (B)  1:22.509   63
 6.  Heidfeld        BMW-Sauber          (B)  1:22.874   79
 7.  Bourdais        Toro Rosso-Ferrari  (B)  1:22.887   80
 8.  Coulthard       Red Bull-Renault    (B)  1:23.889   81
 9.  Piquet          Renault             (B)  1:23.039   64
10.  Vettel          Toro Rosso-Ferrari  (B)  1:23.232   74
11.  Barrichello     Honda               (B)  1:23.795   84
12.  Sutil           Force India-Ferrari (B)  1:23.800   86
13.  Button          Honda               (B)  1:23.808   85


Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2008, 06:14:37 PM »
Nice one! I will watch this fin with great interest. (Just dreading the news reports when Ferrari or McLaren utilise one - it'll be "Finn gets Fin").
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2008, 03:25:51 PM »
It's called the Burnelli Effect, and is the basis of design for all aircraft wings, props and rotors.

I think it has a retro look to it. It looks like something Jacques Saoutchik would have put on a post-war Delahaye.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline Steven Roy

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2008, 03:41:48 PM »
I have seen one site compare it to something that used to appear on hydroplanes and it does look similar.  Mind you I saw another site with a picture of Dick Dastardly's car from the Wacky Races with a fin.  So either Adrian spends his days watching cartoons or historic hydroplane racing.

Offline cosworth151

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2008, 04:01:12 PM »
My favorite childhood race car had a pronounced fin. It  was why we all thought it was soooooo cool. I'm speaking of the D-Type Jaguar.
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

Offline raindancer

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2008, 05:11:11 PM »
I am not as knowledgeable as all of you on areodynamics so i try to go by the reputation of the designer. If Adrian Newey has it on , it must be doing something. Not very intelligent but .......
Don't Fight Forces ! Use them

CrazyHorse

  • Guest
Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2008, 09:51:25 AM »
Adrian Newey's da man

looks very weird. Suppose if red bull wasnt ferraris B team it would be banned. Im just thinking what if another cars goes flying up its back side, its like a spear

Offline Alianora La Canta

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2008, 12:05:00 PM »
Red Bull isn't Ferrari's B-team; they're powered by Renault. Perhaps Red Bull will quickly send Toro Rosso a copy of the design (assuming it works, and noting that Toro Rosso do have Ferrari engines) to avoid the FIA's ire?
Percussus resurgio
@lacanta (Twitter)
http://alianoralacanta.tumblr.com (Blog/Tumblr)

Offline cosworth151

Re: Red Bull engine cover
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2008, 01:58:42 PM »
Can't see that happening, Ali. It would just stir up the customer car fuss even more.

I agree about Newey's skills. The only problem I see is that he's famous for designing small, tight fitting cars, and now he has to squeeze in the tallest driver in F1!
“You can search the world over for the finer things, but you won't find a match for the American road and the creatures that live on it.”
― Bob Dylan

 


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