ACO Invites F1 Teams

[SennaMan]

Le Mans racing does have a variety of technology that has been sadly missing from F1 for the past decade and a half. The film Truth in 24 points out that one can tell which car is approaching just by the sound. A V8 'Vette, a V12 Ferrari, a Porsche boxer 6 and an Audi TDI all sound vastly different. I can remember when the same could be said of a Cosworth V8, a Ferrari flat 12, etc.

Good point Cos, Variety of design and power train is sadly missing from F1. I think if the regs allowed the teams to design the cars the way they wanted within a set of parameters that did not limited design freedom, this would be very interesting.

That's what the FIA proposed... within a cap.  The FOTA chose heavily regulated designs instead.

W H A A T!!! 

Then pray tell me where the FOTA's "......heavily regulated designs......" first came from?

and please do not try to convince me that the two-tier F1 proposed by FIA for 2010 is somehow "design freedom."

it isn't

Further more Jeri, how do you know what design regulations would be used by the breakaway series anyway?

I for one am quite sure they would be very different from the madness of the 2010 regs issued by the FIA lunatic asylum and its mad max president

i believe a negotiated consenus/compromise will be reached and part of it will be the removal of the "looney" president once and for all.

then F1 can move on   

[Scott]

FOTA proposed the already heavily regulated designs to be stabilized, and not to have them changed, wily-nilly by Max every year.  It's got nothing to do with what they might propose for a breakaway.

Max's insanity is clear to the engineers.  On one side he wants them to slash their budgets (and staff) by huge percentages, but on the other side he wants them to continue massive re-designs (KERS, moveable wings etc...).  Nobody works for free.  If you want Vern from your local garage working on that stuff, then you might be able to keep within the cap (think safety for one thing), but if you want reliable, functional and safe equipment, then you need to have a good team of engineers designing and testing the devices...and that is aside from what the manufacturing and replacement costs are.  

Simply put, the best way to keep costs down is to stabilize the regs and take loopholes out, not introduce massive new changes every year.  Max doesn't seem to grasp this.

[Chameleon]

I'm getting to like this SennaMan guy - he tells it like it is... 

[Jericoke]

W H A A T!!! 

Then pray tell me where the FOTA's "......heavily regulated designs......" first came from?

and please do not try to convince me that the two-tier F1 proposed by FIA for 2010 is somehow "design freedom."

it isn't

Further more Jeri, how do you know what design regulations would be used by the breakaway series anyway?

I for one am quite sure they would be very different from the madness of the 2010 regs issued by the FIA lunatic asylum and its mad max president

i believe a negotiated consenus/compromise will be reached and part of it will be the removal of the "looney" president once and for all.

then F1 can move on   

Not crazy.  Just hormones ;-)

Fact is... FIA proposed design freedom under a cap, or current limitations, without a cap.  They then compromised (using the word loosely) to drop the current limitations entirely, but retain the cap.

FOTA countered by saying to keep the existing regulations for 2010.

I'm pretty sure most people would agree that rev limited, 4 year old engine designs fit the definition of 'limited'.  The whole double diffuser issue came up because the rules are written so tightly, that 8 teams couldn't even imagine it.

I know that FOTA hasn't said they would use the FIA design specs for a 2010 Fake1 series (no disrespect... I'd call the FOTA series F1 and the FIA series Fake1 to be honest, but not sure if that's clear).  I'm just saying that they agreed to it for 2010 already.  They proposed it as a compromise.  (As though it's a compromise to suggest using previously agreed upon rules!)

In any court FOTA is right, FIA is wrong.  When discussing long term survival of F1... the FIA was right to make team budgets an issue, even if they're wrong to not listen to the teams actually paying the money.

[david1275]

Le Mans racing does have a variety of technology that has been sadly missing from F1 for the past decade and a half. The film Truth in 24 points out that one can tell which car is approaching just by the sound. A V8 'Vette,a V12 Ferrari, a Porsche boxer 6 and an Audi TDI all sound vastly different. I can remember when the same could be said of a Cosworth V8, a Ferrari flat 12, etc.

Good point Cos, Variety of design and power train is sadly missing from F1. I think if the regs allowed the teams to design the cars the way they wanted within a set of parameters that did not limited design freedom, this would be very interesting.

That's what the FIA proposed... within a cap.  The FOTA chose heavily regulated designs instead.

I'm with Sennaman on this one. What the FIA proposed under the budget cap 2010 regulations  is not what I would call design freedom, just plain and simple two tier.

I believe that the teams should be given a set of parameters to work to, but those parameters should be written in a way that allows them creative license to design the cars they way they want. Limit wing sizes, engine power, construction materials, etc, and let them decide what the best design is from there. This would be good for us the fans too because of the variety of chassis and engines in the field.

[Jericoke]

I'm with Sennaman on this one. What the FIA proposed under the budget cap 2010 regulations  is not what I would call design freedom, just plain and simple two tier.

I believe that the teams should be given a set of parameters to work to, but those parameters should be written in a way that allows them creative license to design the cars they way they want. Limit wing sizes, engine power, construction materials, etc, and let them decide what the best design is from there. This would be good for us the fans too because of the variety of chassis and engines in the field.

FOTA has proposed no such thing, only to use the pre-existing 2010 regs, which are pretty much the 2009 regs.  I think we all agree that 2009 doesn't allow a lot of freedom. 

FIA even allowed testing (under the cap)

FOTA doesn't.

You're describing an ideal set of regs (which I'm sure we'd all love to see), which is closer to FIA's proposal than FOTA's.

FOTA should be in charge of setting the regs, not FIA.  FOTA's proposal is one of convenience:  2009 has been fine at keeping costs down, so keep it for 2010 and bugger off with the artificial cap.

FIA was hoping that 'technical freedom' would be enticing enough to make the cap palatable.  They were wrong, and yet continue to insist they are right.

I'm hoping that FOTA will start their new series with a blank rule sheet:  safety is concern number one... then do what you want.  Just make sure the car has 4 tires on the road, a camera mount and won't kill anyone.

[Willy]

The thing that appeals to me about Endurance Racing is just that...it is all about endurance, the cars have to be made to endure race conditions for 24 hours.
Not something that a current F1 car could do.

That in itself must cost millions. But your right Cos, travel expenses must be lower.

[david1275]

Jeri, my comments are not what I believe to be the facts, but are what I would like to see the regs be, sort of "Ideal world stuff". I was trying to say the sort of variety we see in Le Mans would be nice to see in F1.

[Jericoke]

Jeri, my comments are not what I believe to be the facts, but are what I would like to see the regs be, sort of "Ideal world stuff". I was trying to say the sort of variety we see in Le Mans would be nice to see in F1.

That would be nice, for sure!

[SennaMan]

I'm getting to like this SennaMan guy - he tells it like it is... 

shucks Cham  and thanks mate, i can only give my opinions and views even if they are often off beat and even "up the wrong creek".

I love this forum, not only for its features but mainly because it is made up of people who are passionate and knowledgeable about F1 and who debate and share their F1 views and experiences with goodwill and courtesy.

more power to our pens

[Chameleon]

I'm getting to like this SennaMan guy - he tells it like it is... 

shucks Cham  and thanks mate, i can only give my opinions and views even if they are often off beat and even "up the wrong creek".

I love this forum, not only for its features but mainly because it is made up of people who are passionate and knowledgeable about F1 and who debate and share their F1 views and experiences with goodwill and courtesy.

more power to our pens

Hear, hear.