Red Bull and Renault. Really!

[Andy B]

Well this is a turn up Red Bull back in talks with Renault or so its reported!
It'll be a little embarrassing surely if they resign and what attitude will Renault take after being verbally abused by RB?

[Scott]

Ferrari turned them down.  In Ferrari's defence, they claim they don't have the facilities to build enough 2016 spec engines, so they can only provide 2015 versions for customers.  I wonder about that since they just moved into a massive shiny new building at least as big as the original factory across the street. 

But regardless if Ferrari have the space or just don't feel like giving them new spec engines, RBR now have no choice unless they want Honda's next year or to shut it all down.

[cosworth151]

During FP2 this morning, they were reporting that Ferrari now says customer engines will be one update behind the the factory team.

[Scott]

Now wouldn't the smart move have been for Horner and Marko to just keep their yaps shut and try to get through the year?  Really astounding is that they didn't even have a solid plan B before they started all the commotion in the first place.  These are lessons that should have been learned in lower levels of motorsports.

[cosworth151]

"Keep your words sweet -- you may have to eat them." - Stephen Grellet (2 November 1773 – 16 November 1855)

[Scott]

The pre-Q interview on BBC with Horner made me 

The whole idea of RBR putting it all on Bernie is a bit like a 6 year old telling his Mommy if she doesn't get him the candy he wants, he's going to hold his breath.  Adding insult is Horner grimly talking about the 1200 jobs at stake.  Those jobs are entirely on Horner, Marko & Dieter's shoulders.  Nobody is forcing them to do anything.

[Scott]

Now wouldn't the smart move have been for Horner and Marko to just keep their yaps shut and try to get through the year.

Eddie said the same thing between Q2-3, adding that Horner must regret it and is trying to make amends now.  Horner heard that and said Eddie was talking out of his a$$ 

[Jericoke]

How can Ferrari possibly have capacity to build old engines yet no capacity for building new ones?

Of all the insults to fans to come out of F1 in the last few years, this is probably the hardest to swallow.  If Ferrari is allowed to systematically sabotage other teams, I don't even see how anyone can watch.  It's not sport.  It's not competition.  It's a waste of time.

[John S]

How can Ferrari possibly have capacity to build old engines yet no capacity for building new ones?

Simple............. they don't want to. 

Of all the insults to fans to come out of F1 in the last few years, this is probably the hardest to swallow.  If Ferrari is allowed to systematically sabotage other teams, I don't even see how anyone can watch.  It's not sport.  It's not competition.  It's a waste of time.

That's a bit strong Jeri, Ferrari like Mercedes are in it to win it and no regulation or precedent compels anyone to supply anything to anyone else. In fact the rules that require all the teams to have individually constructed cars points to the history of teams, and engine manufacturers, ploughing a lonely furrow.

Us old timers remember when top teams lost their engine partners and had to scrap around for whatever they could get to stay racing - Mecachrome, Playlife, or Supertec  anyone? 

Bernie and the others allowed Cosworth, the once default engine supplier to the series, to leave for lack of funding and interested users. Maybe RBR would still not be happy with such a default package,  at least Bernie would be able to threaten to throw the book at them in court for pulling out if there was an on tap engine supply.

It might have stopped this stupid bunfight of RBR trying to dis Merc, Ferrari and F1 reputations instead of admitting and addressing their own failings.     

[J.Clark]

When boiled down, it seems to me a bit like sour grapes.

Each team, and indeed, each engine supplier has had bad years.  Red Bull seems to be tossing the binky out of the pram - spoiled!

I agree that Jeri's comments are a bit on rough side.  Ferrari doesn't have to supply RBR with any engines, like Mercedes.  Unless Honda has an exclusive arrangement in their contract with McLaren, maybe RBR could work something out with them.  Of course, bailing out on Renault simply because they have suffered just doesn't seem the way to go.

The working relationship between RBR and Renault seems to be strained at best.  They should, seems to me at least, work a bit more closely with their engine partner to get things worked out, as they have to realize that they have unquestionably the leading designer (team) in Formula 1.

[Jericoke]

When boiled down, it seems to me a bit like sour grapes.

Each team, and indeed, each engine supplier has had bad years.  Red Bull seems to be tossing the binky out of the pram - spoiled!

I agree that Jeri's comments are a bit on rough side.  Ferrari doesn't have to supply RBR with any engines, like Mercedes.  Unless Honda has an exclusive arrangement in their contract with McLaren, maybe RBR could work something out with them.  Of course, bailing out on Renault simply because they have suffered just doesn't seem the way to go.

The working relationship between RBR and Renault seems to be strained at best.  They should, seems to me at least, work a bit more closely with their engine partner to get things worked out, as they have to realize that they have unquestionably the leading designer (team) in Formula 1.

If Pirelli supplied different quality of tires to different teams, there would be outrage.  If McLaren supplied different quality of controllers to different teams, they would be fined so much that Dennis's great great grandkids would be paying it.

So why is it okay for Ferrari to openly offer substandard equipment?  I agree it is their right to sign any contract anyone offers them that fits in the rules.  I agree that Ferrari isn't the guiltiest party here.  A system that allows it is clearly broken.  It's one thing for Honda to do their best, and come up short.  It's quite another for Ferrari to half ass it on purpose.  If they're not going to supply teams fairly, they shouldn't be allowed to supply at all.  (That goes for ANY supplier in F1, not just engines)

If Ferrari wants to be the tallest giant in a room full of hobbits, and the FIA is okay with that, I don't have to stick around to watch.

[cosworth151]

Teams have to use Pirelli tires and McLaren ECU's. On the other hand, if they don't like Ferrari's deal, they can go buy an engine off of somebody else.

[Scott]

Ali will probably have to wade in here, but if I'm not mistaken, there was a change to the customer engine rules early this year...I remember some discussion about them being allowed to sell one year old engines.  That is the root of the problem.  Give them the right, and they will use it how they like to.  I believe it was more about giving teams further down the grid an engine option that was considerably less expensive than a current engine.  What Ferrari is choosing to do is not within the spirit of that rule.  But on the other hand, they could simply say no. 

In this whole situation I put 99% of the blame entirely on RBR.  They decided to do this in public and now there are reputations on the line, commercial considerations on the line and judging by the way RBR has behaved, an engine manufacturer would have to be suicidal to willingly provide RBR with engines at the moment.

[lkjohnson1950]

Engine su[[liers have rarely supplied the same engines to all their customers. Way back in the '60s, teams were complaining that Climax was giving Lotus the best engines. In the Cosworth era, Lotus was one developement ahead of the other teams for a couple of years. When Schu was at Benneton everyone knew that Williams got the latest spec Renaults and Benneton was one stage behind. It's not a new wrinkle by any means.

[Scott]

Engine su[[liers have rarely supplied the same engines to all their customers. Way back in the '60s, teams were complaining that Climax was giving Lotus the best engines. In the Cosworth era, Lotus was one developement ahead of the other teams for a couple of years. When Schu was at Benneton everyone knew that Williams got the latest spec Renaults and Benneton was one stage behind. It's not a new wrinkle by any means.

I knew works teams got the newest developments first, but I understood that the modern customer engine rules specifically stated that the customers were to receive the same spec engines as the works team...being one development ahead is a much smaller step than an entire year.