Where are the Manufacturers?

[lkjohnson1950]

Kate Walker (one of my favorites) asks if F1 is still relevant to the Big Boys.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1160118103036/analysis-is-f1-still-the-place-for-manufacturers-to-be

[Jericoke]

It's my understanding that the current engine formula was made to keep Mercedes happy, and in the sport.

Obviously that's worked out well.

I'm not sure it's what was best for the sport, but at least F1 met it's goal.

I would like to see F1 work with other potential suppliers, and find out just what it would take to put more of them in the sport.  If we have to lose Mercedes and Renault to attract a larger variety of suppliers, I'm okay with that.

I'm not all that familiar with WEC, but they're run by the FIA, what are they doing right that F1 is doing wrong?  (I get the Formula E thing.  People want electric cars.  Race fans may not, but consumers do.  It doesn't matter if FE is fun to watch, the suppliers just want a press release on Monday)

[lkjohnson1950]

WEC has even more complicated rules, but they encourage innovation a bit more. The top 3, Audi, Porsche and Toyota all use radically different powerplants coupled to slightly different drive trains. Alia can explain it better if she checks in.

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/6199/Audi-R18-e-tron-quattro.html

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/6086/Porsche-919-Hybrid.html

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/5779/Toyota-TS040-Hybrid.html

[John S]

Yeah but a few years back Audi nearly killed off top line WEC racing with their domination. Still not sure there is really that much competition in the LMP classes.

I think WEC really works because there are so many cars in differing classes cluttering up the place making it almost impossible for the front runners not to get involved in incidents whilst having to overtake a dozen cars, or more, each lap. 

[cosworth151]

Remember that the FIA have only been involved with endurance racing for a few years. Give them a little time. I'm sure that they can ruin it, too. I still don't see how they can claim to be a World Endurance Championship without the Twelve Hours of Sebring.

I don't think Audi's domination damaged endurance racing any more than the Ferrari-Schumacher juggernaut damaged F1. The main thing that endurance racing still has is innovation. Teams aren't restricted to a single type of powertrain. Until the FIA got involved, they weren't even restricted to a single body type.

Sadly, I don't see F1 learning from endurance racing. I see the FIA dragging endurance racing down the same hole that F1 is in.

[Alianora La Canta]

Remember that the FIA have only been involved with endurance racing for a few years. Give them a little time. I'm sure that they can ruin it, too. I still don't see how they can claim to be a World Endurance Championship without the Twelve Hours of Sebring.

The race is part of the IMSA calendar and was part of one of its predecesor series (ALMS) since before WEC ever existed. WEC had no chance of poaching the event, and IMSA was never going to allow a full conversion to WEC rules given that it is one of IMSA/ALMS's blue riband events. It would be as absurd as asking Le Mans to be given over to F1 rules or governance simply because Bernie is jealous of it being more successful than the Azerbaijan Grand Prix will ever be.

The one time WEC and ALMS tried to so much as share a venue during the 12 Hours of Sebring, it was a disaster from the administrative perspective. Basically, nobody knew what they were doing. Some of the slower ALMS cars didn't qualify as there weren't enough slots.

There were different rules for different people on track (because neither ruleset permitted deviation from its full-season rules, WEC because it would have endangered its world designation, ALMS because such a thing would have gone against its principles and both because it would have caused a different kind of confusion), from everything to track limits to classification distance requirements. In one class (GTE-Pro), the confusion is believed to have contributed to a bizarre last-lap three-car collision that nearly took out the winner of both WEC and ALMS sub-categories (dare I mention the third car was not only not the runner-up in either, but was 80 laps down from the other 2 cars at the time?). Oh, and it took an hour to award the trophies because there were nine sub-classes.

12 Hours of Sebring isn't in the World Endurance Championship because another series claimed it first.

[John S]

In one class (GTE-Pro), the confusion is believed to have contributed to a bizarre last-lap three-car collision that nearly took out the winner of both WEC and ALMS sub-categories (dare I mention the third car was not only not the runner-up in either, but was 80 laps down from the other 2 cars at the time?). Oh, and it took an hour to award the trophies because there were nine sub-classes.

Like I said for many the main interest in WEC races is the potential and usually actual trouble from so many differing runners on track. - Don't get me wrong I see that as a big plus, but it's very different from the racing in an F1 race.

[cosworth151]

Sebring was part of the Le Mans series championship back when that championship was still being run by the ACO. It ran flawlessly. The problems didn't start until the FIA got it's dirty claws on the series. Now that we've got the FIA on one side & NASCAR on the other, it's an absolute pig's breakfast.