Can F1 Survive?

[Wizzo]

Honda's exit raises questions over whether F1 can secure its future, the loss of a major manufacturer could be an early indicator of worse news to come.

Toyota, who has seen a poor return on its investment with no victories in seven years, said it remains committed to F1. Teams such as Ferrari, McLaren and BMW Sauber are not considered under threat due to calculated investment and strong sponsor support. Renault's victories toward the end of last season has boosted confidence that the team can compete for the championship next season. Red Bull, Toro Rosso and Force India are secure for the time being, so long as their billionaire owners continue to sign the cheques.

That leaves Williams and Toyota looking vulnerable at a time when solid financial backing is a must. Williams is the last true independent team left on the grid, but has been beset by financial difficulties, with big losses last year.

The teams say they are already responding to the changing realities within the sport and the global economy. Honda's exit bolsters Mosley's argument that the sport must become greener and more affordable if it is to have a viable future.

Bernie Ecclestone called Honda's exit a "wake-up call" for the sport to start engaging with its fans again. Ecclestone said. "We are in the business of entertainment and we should be building race cars to race."

Thoughts?

[cosworth151]

Honda has gone in and out of F1 so often over the years that I see this almost as Deja vu. I found the exit of Ford, after 39 years, as the beginning of trouble.

Likewise, Toyota would be no great loss. Sir Frank has found many engine suppliers over the years. He'll find another, no doubt, better one.

If the deal to have Cosworth provide an affordable alternative comes to fruition, it could be the harbinger of a new age of constructors.

If any thing, this should be a wake-up call for Bernie. There is plenty of cash flowing into F1. The problem is that most of it flows to Bernie, not the teams and promoters.

[John S]

Honda's departure, sad as it is, may actually bring in another non manufacturer team which may redress the balance a bit between the haves and have nots and lead to a more balanced FOTA who can push Bernie & Max harder.

Cos is right, Bernie has to give more of the money to the teams and tracks if the sport is to attract more new teams in the longer term.

The big question for me is how Red Bull are going to keep the funding up for both teams and if STR has to be sold will anyone have the money to pay for a new chassis making operation that they will need.

The sale, or rather the giveaway, of Honda team and facilities should ensure someone takes it on. This is a very honourable way for Honda to exit, others may just have shut the doors and left auctioneers to sell everything to anyone bidding the highest for any part of the business.

Perhaps appearance money can be paid for attending all the fly away races that Bernie keeps adding to the calendar, if he thinks they are such a good idea he should pay to make them happen.

I personally think Williams will hang on in there and simply cut back their expectations for a year or two, which is hard for true racers like Frank and Patrick to accept but they will take the long view.

There has been trouble with teams being strapped for cash and with teams leaving over the years but F1 is bigger than any one or five teams so it will survive. Perhaps it will have different engines and the cars will look different in 2 or 3 years time, but hasn't it always evolved over the years?

[SennaMan]

Honda's exit raises questions over whether F1 can secure its future, the loss of a major manufacturer could be an early indicator of worse news to come.

It is. Cossies comment: "I found the exit of Ford, after 39 years, as the beginning of trouble." is bang on the money or lack of it! It is my view the entry of the major manufacturers cemented the bastardisation of F1


Williams is the last true independent team left on the grid, but has been beset by financial difficulties, with big losses last year.

Following on from my previous comment, independents like WILLIAMS are the life-blood of a true F1 as the sole reason they exist is to go racing unlike the majors who are only motivated with corporate image, prestige, the bottom line and keeping shareholders happy.

TOYOTA is the biggest example of this and frankly give me one good benefit in having them in F1? Their complete and utter incompetence within the F1 mileu makes me wince with embarrassment.

F1 started dying the moment focus shifted from racing to making fistfuls of dollars. It deserves to die in its present guise and it will - the sooner the better to replace it with a genuine motor racing series.

The teams say they are already responding to the changing realities within the sport and the global economy. Honda's exit bolsters Mosley's argument that the sport must become greener and more affordable if it is to have a viable future.

How b ironic when HONDA itself was the only team actively pushing "GREEN" concepts and philosophy! Mind you the team had two sets of masters; one in Japan and the other in the UK and was doomed to failure. Poor old nick FRY was set up in a mission he could never win.

Bernie Ecclestone called Honda's exit a "wake-up call" for the sport to start engaging with its fans again. Ecclestone said. "We are in the business of entertainment and we should be building race cars to race."

the b hypocrite! He has been the emperor, the guy in charge, who has overseen and fostered this "bums on seats" charade and only now implores for a return to racing? 

Thoughts?

Sorry if mine offend ya - just my opinion after all

[Scott]

Honda was one of the only companies to simply ditch their team rather than promote it for sale, and they obviously learned their lesson from the media and fan backlash after the Aguri shutdown.  What they are doing this time is not honourable, it is simply ethical.

Should Toyota be looking to step back a bit from F1, I hope they look at Williams as a team partner and move their financial support his way (maybe title sponsor and engine supplier).  In this atmosphere, I think Williams would have the upper hand and could dictate the terms of that contract, which would please Frank and Patrick.  Otherwise, as it has been said, Williams will just tighten their belts and ride out the storm. 

I wouldn't use the term 'poor ole Nick Fry'.  He jumped at the chance to lead the Honda team after his boss for many years (David Richards) was booted out of the team with Nick a player working behind his back.  Nick had a big part in the foolish demise of SA as well.  Poor ole Nick deserves early retirement, little more.

Bernie is Bernie, and nothing surprises me anymore.  However evil he is, he is also fairly perceptive and many would say brilliant.  He will recognize the issues that the economy has thrown at F1 and develop a strategy to make it through the bad times.  Just wait.

[Dare]

F1 has and will always survive.My question is
can the fans survive

[SennaMan]

F1 has and will always survive.My question is
can the fans survive

good one Dare - it is getting harder to remain 'loyal'

I shall keep repeating "things have to die to be reborn"

[SennaMan]

..............
Should Toyota be looking to step back a bit from F1, I hope they look at Williams as a team partner and move their financial support his way (maybe title sponsor and engine supplier).  In this atmosphere, I think Williams would have the upper hand and could dictate the terms of that contract, which would please Frank and Patrick.  Otherwise, as it has been said, Williams will just tighten their belts and ride out the storm................. 

what a brilliant thought SD! They'd do a far better job too

Bernie is Bernie, and nothing surprises me anymore.  However evil he is, he is also fairly perceptive and many would say brilliant.  He will recognize the issues that the economy has thrown at F1 and develop a strategy to make it through the bad times.  Just wait.

I agree SD but the waiting is killing me!

[leather12]

Indeed, tha wake is killing....
We all want a competitive F1 with lots of overtaking, and no more queues...
It's not only Honda who stops, look at audi, they simply withdraw their program, reducing it to two appearances..
Since ecclestone has come to power, it has become unsustainable for spectators to follow a lot of GP...and each and every year, Mr E seems to up the ante by 10%
Governments have to pay huge sums to sustain the organisators losses, and a lot of GP don't have that much spectators..... When I listen to big E or briatore, they keep telling us we don't need to know what's inside an engine or under the bonnet....they are far from the truth as lots know what's happening or screen pictures to see minute details..
There are lots of engineers that understand pretty good what they are talking about, and besides some simple explanation can lead to everybody understand what's at stake...

[cosworth151]

Right you are, Leather. Most F1 fans pride themselves on their knowledge of the cars, teams and drivers. The discussions here on Wizard are an example of that. For the management of the sport to try to discourage that level of devotion is downright foolish.

[romephius]

It's that sort of knowledge and passion for the sport that defines the true fan from the wanna-be that buys a team shirt and shows up on race day only.... the sad part is that in business the bosses don't care how it's done... they just want their money...

Sadly I am finding this out in my workplace... so I hardly expect anything else when there are billions riding on it

Rom

[Alianora La Canta]

I've found out in my workplace that some people don't care about anything as long as they can get another crumb of power. And money is what power looks like when it's visited the mint. But that's not what life is supposed to be about, and the powers-that-be have forgotten that

[SennaMan]

I've found out in my workplace that some people don't care about anything as long as they can get another crumb of power. And money is what power looks like when it's visited the mint. But that's not what life is supposed to be about, and the powers-that-be have forgotten that

well said ALC

as they say if we do not stand [commit, have a passion for etc] for something we will fall for anything

F1 is far more than a money making opportunity and running it as such dishonours its glorious legacy and demeans all who are in it

this madness will pass - has to doesn't it?

[leather12]

The world is bleeding money now, and governments have to give some money to the people....money they don't have, we will pay for that in due time as we are only considered as mere tax payers...
The real F1 fan is also considered like some tax payer, enjoy seeing nothing, stay stupid, come out with a wide laughing and don't forget to pay more and more....

This vision will stop soon, because die hards like me watch inferior formulas and find something to enjoy...I better see the formula ford festival and macau GP instead of a political conduct by over rich teams....
I like to be in grandstands where you can see something, brave racery and courageous men fighting for points.....the new medal system E wants to impose is no more than a huge farce...the only thing he has to change is giving more points for a victory instead of more points to a good calculating second....the final in Brazil has been an horrenduous race, showing a team into panic mode for fear of losing the title....one last detail, Lewis never used his joker engine for the whole year, I don't see a point were he wouldn't be allowed to use his joker on the finale....a race is a race.....this is what I find a very big unfair advantage and maybe Lewis could have marched to the podium...
I hate politics, so I hate constructors...back to the fans, let us rub shoulders with one another, and have nice week ends
 back to basics, and certainly back to the future sic

[Ian]

On Monday I watched GP2 in Bahrain, it was superb, some great racing and overtaking, wheel to wheel stuff, late braking into corners, the sort of stuff we all want. It grieves me to say it, but, if GP2 was put into tv competition with F1 I'm afraid quite a few people would turn to that.